A Yissachar / Zebulun Partnership in Loving Memory of Yishak ben Simcha A"H & Felicia bat Miriam A"H
Rabbi Gabriel Koskas

Torah Lecture

A recognizable majority for Zimun of 10. Why?

Lectured by Rabbi Gabriel Koskas

Published
January 17, 2026
Duration
5:32
Lecture code
RGK-1738

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I'm going to interrupt the halachot (Jewish law) of Shabbat for a Chiddush (novel insight) I saw yesterday. This is a Gemara in the Masechet (tractate) Berachot of Mem Chet (forty-eight) that says a famous halacha: if ten people eat together, they have to say a special zimun (invitation) that includes the name of Hashem, Elokeinu. But the ten people do not all need to have eaten bread. If nine people ate bread and one person ate something else, or drank something other than water, that person can be included as the tenth, and they can say Elokeinu. The Gemara asks, “What about eight? What about seven?” The Gemara says that is fine; even eight and seven work. The Gemara does not ask about six. It says, “We’re not going to ask about six.” Why? The Gemara can be read in two ways, but the overwhelming majority of Rishonim (early authorities) understand it to be saying that six is pashut (simple): it does not work. So if six people ate bread and four people ate something else, you would not be able to say Elokeinu in that zimun. Why? Because you need a rov hanikar. You need a rov that is recognizable. You need seven. Seven is a—let’s call it a big rov. A small rov, a small majority, six against four, is not enough. All the Rishonim understand the Gemara this way. There is one Or Zarua that says no, even six works. We’re going to leave the Or Zarua aside for now.

Here’s a simple question: why? Where is this rov hanikar business coming from? There is no source. Why? If it’s rov, it’s rov. The Torah does not say rov hanikar. It even talks about half-half. When you look in the Rishonim, they discuss half-half. If it’s 51%, it’s rov. Why is there a rov hanikar here in the sugya (Talmudic discussion)? The truth of the matter is, this is a Taz I saw last night in Yoreh De'ah, Siman (section) Chaf Alef (twenty-one). He wants to compare the sugya of rov hanikar of zimun with two more sugyot: Shechita (ritual slaughter)—Siman Chaf Alef is Hilchot (laws of) Shechita—where a rov of the simanim that you cut has to be rov hanikar; and, in Orach Chaim, Siman Yud (ten), where the majority of the tzitzit (ritual fringes) on the beged (garment) has to be rov hanikar, that it’s open. It has very interesting comparisons.

But, Lichora (seemingly), I found someone who addresses the question: what is the source for requiring a rov hanikar, a majority that is recognizable—seven people who ate bread versus six people who ate bread? Rabbeinu Yonah says a Chiddush. It only works according to one shita (opinion). It could get really complicated, so I’m going to be as simple as possible. According to Rabbeinu Yonah, the source is the following: the regular zimun, three people. If you have three people, is it the same halacha when two people ate bread and one person ate something else? Can they do zimun? It’s a big Machloket (dispute) among the Rishonim. Rabbeinu Yonah and the Rosh hold that it works. It works the same way for ten as it does for three. Tosafot has a whole different mahalach (approach), but according to Rabbeinu Yonah, it works. If two people ate bread and one person ate French fries, it’s fine; they could do zimun. Rabbeinu Yonah says that the source for the ten is that three is actually more chamur (stringent) than ten. Why? Because in ten, you already have three people, so the chiyuv (obligation) of zimun has already come. That’s the Tosafot in Mem Zayin (forty-seven). You already have a chiyuv of zimun, and now all you need to do is add the cherry on the cake. Am I going to say Elokenu or not? It’s not so difficult to be matir (permit) over there. Over there, with the katan (minor), you want to be mechalek (distinguish).

If you have two people who ate bread and one who ate French fries, Rabbeinu Yonah says it works. How could that work? Well, because that’s the rov. It’s the only option of rov that you have. Ten cannot be more lenient than three. If you have six, you don’t even make it to the rov of two-thirds. Because in three, you have two-thirds. That’s 66.6%. So you need to have 66.6% in ten also. Six against four: you got 60%. You don’t even make it to the rov of three, which is two. So you can’t cut a person in two. Therefore, you’re going to have to have seven people in order to comply with the percentage that you already have with three. That’s why you need seven people in Hilchot Zimun. That’s a big Chiddush from Rabbeinu Yonah. B'kavod (with pleasure).