Welcome to Shalom Bayit (domestic harmony) class. I’m wondering what class number we’re up to. Anybody know? I haven’t been taking attendance; I’ve been bad. What? Whatever the number is, Baruch Hashem (Blessed is Hashem).
Last week, we were discussing different types of behaviors that sometimes stand in the way of our Shalom Bayit. I think I told you there were four types we were going to discuss, and I think we actually discussed three. For the note takers, sometimes you mess up people’s notes, and it gets them all nervous.
We discussed escalating. Escalating is when, instead of letting things calm down, we make them worse by adding one more comment and then one more comment, and then there’s that snowball effect. It’s a pattern that can be very destructive in a marriage.
We talked about invalidating, which is not understanding that a person needs to be listened to in a way that makes them feel their emotions and feelings are valid. They have a right to their feelings. If we make a person feel that way when we express our concern, even if we don’t agree, that will also make for better relations between us.
Negative interpretations also hurt a relationship. Negative interpretations are when we immediately think of the worst possible reason for an action. Instead of giving the benefit of the doubt, we do the opposite and think they meant the worst by everything that happens, when in reality it’s really not that way. And even if it were that way, the truth is that thinking like that does a lot of damage to our relationship.
The last part we were getting to before our time ran out was something called withdrawal and avoidance. Certain people refuse to discuss a problem. Certain types of relationships suffer because one of the spouses won’t even talk about what the problem is. They withdraw from it or avoid it altogether.
The difference between withdrawal and avoidance is that with withdrawal, the conversation will start, and the person will do anything they can to get out of it. “I have to go; it’s time for shul (synagogue).” You know, it could be two o’clock in the afternoon, but it’s time for Mincha (afternoon prayer). It could be...
Do all men do it? I don’t know all men. I can’t tell you. But not wanting to deal with the issue and walking out of the room—walking out when nothing has really been solved yet—or changing the subject: that’s withdrawing. Withdrawing means getting out of a situation. Avoidance is when he’s not even going to let the conversation start to begin with—or she. It could be either way.
I think most of us are going to feel—and I could be wrong—that men are more likely to withdraw and avoid talking about problems or issues. They would rather leave things alone. Women are more likely to want to discuss it, get to the bottom of it, and see if they can find a solution. That causes friction in a relationship.
What very often happens is that it causes something called the pursuer-withdrawer combination, and it feeds off itself. For argument’s sake, let’s say it’s the woman. It doesn’t have to be, but let’s say it is. The woman is frustrated. She has issues she wants to work on and deal with, and her husband is a withdrawer or an avoider. Things never get resolved. She never feels like she gets to really express herself, and things don’t get taken care of, so she pursues more.
The fact that he withdraws makes her so frustrated that she begins to nag and chase after him: “But we didn’t talk about it yet. We didn’t come to any solutions yet. How come you keep walking out of the room? How come you keep saying you have something to do? Why won’t you listen to me?” She chases after him, pursuing him and wanting him not to avoid the situation, but to deal with the subject.
But the more she pursues, the more he withdraws. And the more he withdraws, the more she pursues. It’s that type of situation where each action causes the negative action in the spouse that we’re trying to change them from. We want them to talk, so we chase after them. But the more we chase after them, the they're going to talk, but when they don't talk, we go after them. It’s a situation that will never stop going in that circle unless we make a conscious effort to stop the pattern.
If the pursuer wants to get results, have a different type of relationship, and stop this cycle from continuing, she has to back off and not pursue. She has to do that because it’s causing tension and causing a reaction. And it’s not that we have to understand that I’m not saying it’s her fault. Whose fault is it? That’s a question that doesn’t have to be brought up or answered, because it feeds off itself and becomes a cycle. Once it has become a cycle, it doesn’t matter whose fault it was. What matters is that the pattern is going to continue until somebody breaks it.
True, if he’ll sit down and discuss everything you need to discuss for as long as you want to discuss it, that will stop you from pursuing. But also, if we stopped coming on so strong, they might relax a little and be able to discuss it.
What a woman has to understand, if that’s her situation—where she’s the pursuer and he’s the withdrawer—is that she should try to figure out what’s making him withdraw. Why is he afraid, reluctant, or unwilling to sit down and talk about their problems? There could be different reasons. You have to try to figure out the reasons and deal with them. If we don’t deal with the reasons, he’s still going to run, and he’s going to run faster and further away instead of sitting down and talking about it.
Is he afraid to talk to me about my problems because of the way I approach him? Is he afraid to talk? I’m thinking out in my own head how I would be thinking. Is it my manner? Is it my choice of words? Am I putting him down as I tell him about my problem? Am I saying it in a way that’s hurtful? Am I saying it in a way that makes him feel it’s all his fault? I have to be able to figure out: Why is he running? What is he afraid of? Why can’t he sit and talk to me?
It’s probably the way—I’m not talking about guilt and blame—but I can probably get better results if I change the way I approach him: how I approach him, when I approach him.
Maybe I’m approaching him when he’s busy, or when he’s extra nervous. Maybe he just came home from work. He’s wound up from the day and needs to relax and unwind, and I’m picking those times. I’ve been waiting all day to talk to him, so the second he walks into the room, I’m going to talk to him. We want to sit down and talk about problems, and he can’t. He can’t hear it. My timing could be wrong. I have to analyze: What’s a good time? When is a good time to talk to him? Are my words hurtful and aggressive?
Sometimes we don’t realize our own disposition or the feelings behind it, and it comes out so obviously to the other person. But it’s not obvious to us. We think we’re saying something neutral, but our facial expression, tone of voice, and even body language—the way we hold ourselves—could be very attacking. He could be running away because he feels attacked. It doesn’t feel to him like we’re discussing a family issue that maybe we can solve together, work out, and use to get closer. He’s not feeling that way. He feels he’s being attacked, so he’s running. He’s running.
Not a lot, you know, but some men like to fight back, and some men are going to run. Some men don’t want to—some men have tried fighting back, and it didn’t work. So they’re just going to run. They’re just going to run away, avoid it, and not deal with it.
We have to make sure we’re not attacking and that it doesn’t come off like we’re attacking. We have to be very, very conscious of our approach: What words am I using? How am I using them? Am I using them soft enough, kind enough, with enough padding of compliments that he could sit there and listen to it without feeling attacked? The pursuer needs to analyze: Why is he running, and how can I get him to sit? How can I get him to listen?
The way I find I can get my husband to listen is if he feels that he’s helping me. I told someone recently—and I don’t know why this is popping into my head. I’ll find out after I say it whether it fits in or not—but I was dealing with someone really out of the country. Getting a man to talk about problems is very hard. Getting a woman to talk about problems is easy. Offer her your time, and she’ll be very happy to tell you her problems. But getting a man to talk about his Shalom Bayit problems, to get a man to come, is very hard.
I told another woman, who was not in America, something while I was trying to set something up for a student who had moved out of the country. I said, “You know how I deal with the men? You know what I tell them? I tell them, ‘Listen, I want to make your wife exactly how you want her to be. I know that there are problems, and I know there are things she’s doing that are driving you crazy. And I want to help. I want to make her who you want her to be. But I can’t do it without your input. I don’t know what you want, and I can’t do—I’m hearing one side of the story, and I can’t be helpful with one side of the story. So just come and help me. Tell me what you need. Tell me what you want. Tell me your side of the story. Then I can try to do for you. I can try to make your marriage what you want it to be.’”
That’s my only way of getting the guy to come. If I can convince him that it’s to his best benefit to come and talk to me and give me his side of the story, then I can start working with them as a couple. Once the relationship is there and he’s already coming, I can start to work with them, because I can’t work with him if I can’t get him. I have to get him. I have to get him to come.
Even with myself and my own husband, he has to feel that the reason we’re talking is that I have a problem I want to deal with and that I want to be better. If I approach my husband and say, “Things haven’t been so good between us. I realize I’m doing some things wrong. I realize I’m not really doing what you want me to do in the relationship. Let’s talk about it,” maybe he’ll sit down now. Maybe he’ll sit down. Once we start talking, you can tell him your feelings.
But it really has to come from that point of view. When I’m telling that man to come in for counseling, or whatever we want to call it, and I’m using that approach, I can’t just be joking. It’s not that I’m being manipulative, and I’m really not lying, because it’s true. I really do want to know what is going to work in their relationship, and it takes two to tango, as they say. It takes two people in a relationship to make it work. I’m not just joking. I’m serious. The woman is very happy that I’m saying it, you know, that I’m only manipulating, that I’m only getting him to come. But the truth is, it’s true. There is truth to it.
And when I tell my husband that I’m not really doing my end of the bargain and that I want to sit down and talk about how I could do things differently, I really mean it, too. I should mean it, too. If I don’t mean it, it may not work. I have to come into a situation realizing, you know something, I’m not perfect. Not everything I say and do is correct, and everything he says and does is wrong. He is not the only one who needs to change in this relationship. I have to change and grow also.
If I approach it with that in my own mind, I can say, “I want to make things better. I want to be a better wife. I want our relationship to be happier, and I feel like I’m not doing what I should be doing in this relationship for you. Could we just talk about it a little so I can understand better how to be a better wife?” And then talk about it. Talk about the problems now. He wants to know you want to be a better wife, but at least you’ll have the opportunity to present your side.
Let’s say he’s going to do that. Let’s say he’s just going to blame you for everything. First, you want to give me a for instance? I mean, not in a personal way, but just, you know, he’s going to say, “Okay, you’re very disorganized around the place when I come home, and I can’t live like this, and it makes me nervous.” I don’t know what to say. So now, outright defending yourself, you say, “Oh, so the fact that things are out of order really makes you nervous. Then one of the things I have to do is figure out a way for the house to be more organized.”
I’m taking it from “your fault, my fault,” but I’m telling you that I hear the problem. The problem is that the chaos in our family life is driving you crazy. I understand that. Okay, so that’s problem number one. Maybe there are things we can do together as a team to make it less chaotic. Maybe there are certain ways you could help me organize a list, or build me some cubbies in the front closet so the kids will have their own space to put their things when they come home. Or maybe we could make a shelf here for the keys, and you’ll always know where they are. You know what I’m saying? If you approach it not from a blaming point of view, you’re not even looking to blame anymore. He brought up something, and it can sound like he’s blaming you, but you’re going to be above it and say, “Oh, I hear it. I understand. That is bothering you. Let’s fix it. Let’s figure out ways to fix it.” And there are logical ways to fix it.
If anyone wants to jump in with another example, what I’m saying is that if we can present our situations in a less aggressive way, where they don’t feel attacked or blamed, then we can really solve problems together. We can turn our relationship into one where we solve problems together. If there’s an issue, if things aren’t good, if things aren’t right, let’s work something out. Let’s find a way. Let’s do it together. Let’s be a team. It’s not your problem or my problem. It’s our problem. It’s our problem.
Our problem is finances. You’re spending too much; you’re giving me too little. I don’t know what—you leave it open to who’s doing what. But let’s leave the blaming part out and solve the problem. The problem is we need a budget. The problem is I don’t know how much we have. The problem is I’m not sure if I can trust you when I give you... You know what I’m saying? There’s a problem, and we have to figure out what it is. Then we work on how to figure it out and come up with solutions. We can say, “Okay, maybe I could look into getting a part-time job when the kids are in school, and then I would have that extra money if this and this and this came up. Maybe I can tutor. Maybe I’ll save a little from whatever...” You’re going to come up with solutions, not blame.
The problem with most of our arguments is that they only get to the level of blame and never get to the level of solution. It gets to, “It’s your fault.” “No, it’s your fault.” “You always do this, and you always do that.” It doesn’t get to the next stage, because the next stage has to be, “So let’s work on it as a team. Let’s take some steps. Let’s do something. Let’s change it.”
The pursuer-withdrawer type of relationship happens when we don’t change our style. We’re stuck in a pattern that doesn’t work, a destructive pattern, and we’re not getting out of it. All four of these types of relationship styles I discussed with you are patterns that feed on themselves in a destructive way unless we learn to change course and do things differently. It takes a clear head, with your emotions calm, to go in a different pattern than you’re used to and to do things thoughtfully, not spontaneously. You have to be able to think it out.
For our husbands—or whoever is the withdrawer or avoider in the relationship—to feel secure or comfortable, or able to deal with our problems, we have to present them in a way that won’t frighten them off. We have to present them in a way they can handle, so they won’t run away from us and keep avoiding the issues.
Plus, we have to back off. If we bring up too many things too often, then no matter how nice we are about it, they’re still going to run away, because it’s too much to handle. Every time he talks to you, you have a complaint. Every time he talks to you, you have a problem. It’s like, “Can I ever talk to you when it’s not a problem? Can we have a relationship that isn’t based on needs?” We have to make it less frequent. We shouldn’t have to be talking about problems so often. It shouldn’t always be problems.
The pursuer has to back off. Of course, it could work both ways. The withdrawer could say, “I’m going to be strong. I’m going to listen to her. I’m going to use active listening, and I’m going to validate her feelings,” and then life would be simple and we would feel very good about the relationship. But that probably won’t happen, and I’m not talking to the men. If I were talking to the men, that’s what I would be telling them.
When I’m talking to a man, I’m going to give him the man’s point of view. If my husband were talking to the men, he would tell them, “If you listen to her calmly, if you let her speak it out, if you tell her that you understand how she’s feeling, then she’ll be calmer and she’ll be able to talk to you.” But I’m talking to the women, so we have to do what we can do. We can’t make him listen, but we can present our case in a nonthreatening way that he might be able to listen to. So that’s what we’re going to try. Those are the four types of relationship styles that we’re going to look at: which pattern we’re stuck in and how to get out of that rut.
The next step in our Shalom Bayit is a concept: there’s a balance in marriage that we have to achieve to really be happy, and it’s a balance between separateness and togetherness. Just this morning, when I was thinking about this, I was thinking about it in terms of Niddah (menstrual separation), too, because in Niddah we have the concept of a time for separateness and a time for togetherness. It just blended in with that concept that Hashem also has us set up for a relationship that is a combination of both.
When we say that a marriage should be two halves of a whole, and that we should sort of become one, it’s a very idealistic idea. But I don’t really think it works 100%. Maybe that’s just in our time today, with the modern woman not wanting to be absorbed, not wanting to really be blended, but still wanting to have her own identity. But I think that’s part of the plan. Part of it has to be separate, and part of us needs to be together.
What I’m trying to get at is that there are two parts of a relationship. We want to have enough feelings of togetherness. We want to feel that we’re part of each other and that we blend with each other. A woman might feel a little lonely. She might feel that he doesn’t talk to her enough or spend time with her. She waits all day for him to come home, and she wants him to cheer up her day. Maybe she got stuck home all day, changing diapers. God bless them. She wants adult company or something else in her life. And then he doesn’t feel that for her. He doesn’t come in with it or give her the type of companionship she’s looking for. She feels they don’t have that togetherness time. They don’t have that feeling, and something is missing.
Or a woman can feel that all she does is for him. Everything she does is for him. She’s trying to be a good wife, so she does all her errands, takes care of the children and the house, and does everything. But there’s no me in it. There’s nothing in it that’s her. She feels like she’s not appreciated, and something is missing. Something is missing.
There are two parts of the relationship. There’s the part that wants to blend together, and then there’s the part that wants to have your own identity and your own space. There’s a balance. It’s supposed to be a little bit of this and a little bit of that. It can’t be one and not the other. It really has to blend.
What I find is that a woman who doesn’t have her own identity and depends on her husband to define who she is resents him. She resents him because she doesn’t understand—she’s unhappy, and she feels her unhappiness is because of him, because her identity is through him. Her life is all in him, and if she’s not happy, then it’s his fault, because their marriage is making her unhappy. She’s trapped and stuck because of him. If she feels trapped and stuck, it’s his fault, and she’s going to resent him.
When a woman feels like that, she has to step back, take responsibility for her own life, and say, “My life is up to me, and if I feel unfulfilled, I have to do something to change that.”
A woman who feels her husband is at fault for her unhappiness—unless, God forbid, he’s abusing her. If there’s a real issue, then that’s a different issue, and it’s not a laughing issue. It’s a real issue. But in a regular, normal relationship where she’s just frustrated, feels like she’s going nowhere and doing nothing, and thinks it’s his fault, it’s not his fault. It’s something that can change.
It’s funny that sometimes we don’t change the situation and blame our husbands because it’s a little scary to change. Change means I’m going to have to evaluate my life and maybe take some hard steps. It might mean starting to do scary things, like going back to school or trying to open a business, or doing challenging things that I might be afraid to do, feel I don’t have the ability to do, or not know if I want to do. I don’t know if I can do it. So instead of really looking at the situation and going for what you need in your life, you keep blaming him and stay status quo. It feels safer. You don’t realize you’re keeping yourself miserable because you’re afraid to make the change you need to make yourself happy. It’s scary, so you’d rather stay where you are. You’d rather not change.
We can’t blame our husbands for not fulfilling our own lives. The truth is, I feel that when a woman is raising children, Baruch Hashem, and her children are young, it’s wonderful if she can feel fulfilled in that role. I think it’s beautiful. I bless my children that they should always feel that way, that they should feel that this is their fulfillment in life. When your children are young, and you’re taking care of your family and your house and feel fulfilled in it, it’s the most beautiful role a woman could have.
But too many women today don’t feel fulfilled in it. Too many women today feel frustrated in it. So I can either really work on my own Hashkafah (outlook) to feel more fulfilled in that role. If I can feel truly fulfilled in it—and you know what? A woman could be, if you just thought of it in terms of teaching your child, how much effort could you actually put into teaching your child?
There were times when my kids were home from school because they were sick. They were home for the whole week, those crying low, Elena, you know. They used to go back to school ahead of where the class was, because I guess I was always a teacher and didn’t know it. I enjoyed teaching them. I would get the material and the work, and I would really teach them and do it with them. They would go back to school and say, “Ma, we weren’t even up to that.” It’s like, we went too far.
If a woman wants to feel that she’s doing something important, and that taking care of her children gives her a lot of fulfillment in her life, then she won’t have that problem. She’ll be doing what she’s doing and loving it.
If she feels that being a wife is being the Kohen Gadol (High Priest) of her house, if she has the feeling, the mentality, that Hashem is entrusting this to me—these children are His children that He put in my hands, and He wants me to mold their thoughts, mold their Middot, their character, take care of them, and teach them—then she goes through her day feeling tremendously fulfilled, spiritual, and uplifted in what she’s doing: taking care of her house, doing chesed (kindness) for her husband, and feeling like she’s making tremendous strides and feeling good about it. That’s really how I see a woman with young children. That’s my ideal. That’s my ideal. That’s who I hope and wish she would be.
But if she’s miserable, unhappy, unfulfilled, and resentful, she’s going to resent her husband and her children. It’s going to backfire, because she’s not going to be happy, and she’s not going to be a good wife or a good mother.
If I can’t get to the stage of loving the job of being a wife and a mother, which I hope we can, then we have to take steps to do something else. Hopefully, we can do something that won’t ruin our family relationship but will actually enhance it. Do it in a way that doesn’t neglect your family, but is enough to make you feel good, or maybe to help with the financial burden, while still being there for them and able to be a wife for them.
When you have young children, it has to be part-time. It can’t be that now you’re a working woman, out in the world, and basically the little kids are going to fend for themselves. They’re not supposed to fend for themselves. But a woman has to understand and evaluate herself: Are my own feelings in the right direction? Is my own Hashkafah, my values, making me feel right or wrong?
When you have that annoying feeling that I’m wrong, my life is frustrating, unhappy, unfulfilled, and going in the wrong direction, it ends up making you resent your husband and your children. You have to evaluate that. How can I change it? It could come from reading the right things, hearing the right tapes, going to the right classes, and putting your mind back on track. That could help. If that does it, then you’re done. But if it doesn’t, then you’ve got to find another way. You have to find another way.
It might mean that you, as a person, never really grew to the point you wanted to grow. You didn’t grow to the point you wanted to grow. Your neshamah, your insides, or your goals are pushing and reaching, and they’re getting stuck. It feels like I’m trapped inside. I want to get bigger. I want to go beyond. When you feel that, you have to do something. You have to take something on that’s going to make you feel better about your life, because otherwise you’re going to take it out on your family.
When a woman isn’t fulfilled and happy, she takes it out on her family because she’s trapped in it, and so she looks at them as if they’re trapping her. She loves them. She loves them. She cares about them. We all love our children and our family. They’re the most important thing in our life, and if it came down to it, we would do anything for them. But at the same time, we can feel trapped, and feel that they’re the ones trapping us.
If you really have a feeling like that—and I think we all go through times like that—there are growth spurts in us that we’re either going to grow with or suppress. When we suppress those growth spurts, it makes us frustrated and unhappy. Then we take it out on everybody else and think everybody else is causing our unhappiness. So you have to be able to evaluate.
When you have little children and really can’t do the things you want to do, have a plan. I recently told someone that it’s not the time for you to be doing it now. It’s not the time now. God bless this girl I was talking to. She had really little kids, and I said, “But make a plan. Start reading the materials.” She wanted to teach, go into different fields, and do other things. Her children are very, very young, and they need her. So I said, “It might not be what you can do this minute, but start reading the material. Don’t be reading a novel when the kids go to sleep. If you have this feeling that this is who you want to be, this is where you want to be...”
I was reading textbooks on all the psychology subjects and all the things I wanted to teach before I was teaching. All my life, that’s what I felt inspired to do; that’s what I wanted to do. I didn’t have a real plan, but that was just the way my head took me. That’s where I wanted to go. I was telling her, “If you have a goal—right now I’m not doing it, but eventually, when my kids get into school, I’m going to go back to school, get a job, be this or that, whatever it is you want to be—make a plan.” Even if it’s only reading certain material, make a book, keep notes.
Let’s say you wanted to be a decorator. You’re going to be an interior decorator when your children get into school. Right now you’re just going to stay home and change diapers, but when they get into school, you’re going to be an interior decorator. Get yourself a file, a book, a notebook or whatever, and start cutting out pictures of the things you like, or finding out what’s out there. Make a project of it for the future. Don’t trick yourself into thinking, “Oh, I’m doing it, but I’m not doing it.” Have a plan. Have a plan. Look to the future. The future comes before you turn around. You might as well have taken some steps.
Even if you take one course at night, if your husband says that one night a week he’ll babysit the children, and you go at night after they’re sleeping, and you can do it—what’s the big deal? What’s that one course going to do? You take small steps toward your goal. You’re going to feel like you’re doing something, planning for your future, and not stifling yourself or feeling like, “I’m not doing anything. I’m not accomplishing anything.” You have to be growing, in whatever area you want to grow in. Spiritually, we have to always be growing. That we know. In doing chesed, we have to be growing, but intellectually we have to be growing, too. You have to know what your frustration is. A lot of us have frustrations. We have to identify them.
For example, what you say about raising a kid, and that’s what you want to be doing: my mother did that all her life, too. Even after we got married, she got a job. For us, it was like, “What?” We were so shocked. Not that she got the job, but when we needed her and didn’t have her. How do you do that without your kids?
“I do everything. I feed them first, and then I put them in. I don’t want them to feel like, when they get married, when I’m doing my thing, that...”
“You’re not there for them.”
“Right, that they shouldn’t feel that. I wanted to know.”
“Right. I was so shocked when my mother did that. And all of us, you know, we really didn’t need her. We were supposed to be doing these things on our own. But she was always so involved with us that when she suddenly wasn’t, it was such a shock. How do you prevent that?”
“I think I was much older.”
“How do I prevent that? I didn’t want to work right away. So, yeah. But what I’m thinking as I’m listening to what you’re saying is that the question really is: How can I do it and prepare my children to understand that it’s right, that it’s good, that it’s normal, that it’s what a woman should do with her life as she gets older?”
I think back to my girls and how I took care of them, and I think they’re very independent. They always were very independent. It’s funny to say they’re independent because of how much I’m involved in their lives and how much I do for them. It’s a funny relationship, because you could be 100% on both sides. You think you’d have to be 50% and 50%, but it’s a funny relationship to be so connected and yet so independent at the same time.
“It’s not that the child is—we were independent. It was that we couldn’t believe it. We were like, ‘What? That doesn’t make sense.’”
I don’t really know for sure how my children feel about what I’m doing, but I did start doing it when they were home, though they were older. It started with my Taharat HaMishpacha (family purity). Before I accepted the work, I asked my girls. That’s something I remember doing. Bonnie had asked me to start teaching, and I told her I’d get back to her, because one of the smartest things I learned in my life was to try never to answer anything on the spot. Anything, you will get back to them, even if it's in 10 minutes. Give yourself that time to say, “I’ll get back to you.” And I told her I’d get back to her.
Of course, I wanted to talk to my husband about it. But I also asked my children and discussed it with them. In my head, I’m thinking it’s like when Hashem says, “Na’aseh Adam”—let us make man. He uses the plural form, and Rashi tells us that Hashem, of course, was going to do it Himself, and there was nobody else to make man except Hashem. But He consulted with the angels so they would be able to handle that there was going to be another being in the world that Hashem could relate to, and that it was going to take something away from them.
I felt I would be taking time away from my children by getting involved in Shalom Bayit. Well, it was Shalom Bayit, too, but it started out in Taharat HaMishpacha. I discussed it with them and wanted their input. If they were really horrified by it, at that point in my life I wasn’t going to do it, because I thought they might be embarrassed by their mother teaching Taharat HaMishpacha, or by my going out at night when they were home. But I did. They were home. They were home. I thought of all my girls when they got married, so they were home. They were definitely home when I started that part of my teaching, and I discussed it with them. They were old enough that I could ask them, “How do you feel about it? Should I do it?”
They really took—they... I legitimately wasn’t going to do it if it was going to destroy them at that point. But they were fine with it, and they said, “No, go ahead. We’re okay with it, and we can do it.” So it must be my oldest—you know, they’re girls. And four of them, God bless them. My oldest... I don’t remember how long I’ve been doing it now, but she was probably 15. She was probably 15. Yeah, and the oldest, you know, maybe was that point in my life. And I asked them about it.
But I think they always felt that I was growing and changing. It wasn’t a total surprise to them. I mean, it was a surprise to me. The teaching part was a surprise to me. But I always expressed to my children my need to grow and my need to change, and they saw it in me constantly. There was always something I was doing differently, and there was always growth. It was a process. They saw the process. They felt it. So it wasn’t all of a sudden, “Mommy’s doing things.” It was just that the things changed and were different.
I think our children have to see it. We give them a good example when we show them that the growing process never stops, that we’re growing and changing, and that we always have to be doing something new with our lives, something we feel is an improvement in our lives.
I think that’s something our children learn from. We can bring them up with the idea that I’ve always been looking to grow and change. You can discuss it with them. I used to joke with them, “What do I want to be when I grow up?” I’m still saying that: “What do I want to be when I grow up?” You could discuss with your children, “What do you want to be?” You can ask each other, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” and “What do I want to be when I grow up?” There’s still growing, expanding, doing, and taking on new things.
More and more today, women are taking on anything they want to. They really aren’t trapped or stuck in a role. They can take on anything they want. We just have to make sure, of course, that we keep Da’at Torah (Torah guidance) involved, so we’re not going off in the wrong direction or neglecting our children completely. But there’s a balance. There’s a balance.
“No, but that’s why I started out by saying that the ideal, the ideal, the ideal, when your children are young, is to want to be home. But at the same time, I’m a very driven type of person, in a quiet way. I still want to maximize my housewife role, my mother role. I still want to be the best wife and the best mother. Yeah, that’s where I would still want to feel growth. I would still want to feel that should be where I want to do it. But I still want to grow. I want to get them more workbooks, and do more creative things and more projects with them, and I want to do more...”
“No, that’s not strange. That’s perfect. That’s right.”
Yeah. Right, right. I know my friends used to laugh at me because I liked when my kids got up in the middle of the night. Why? Because I felt it was a very cozy time. I don’t know; I’m not a good sleeper anyway. Now my kids are all out of the house, and I still wake up in the middle of the night. It’s not so cozy anymore.
But they went—especially when they were really little—and it was quiet in the house, and everybody was sleeping. It was just me and that little infant, up for nursing. There was something about the middle of the night: hours alone, and nobody else existed. There was that feeling of real isolation, just me and the baby, that I enjoyed. I enjoyed it. That didn’t happen during the day. The phone rings. The kids come in. During the day, you’re nursing, walking, stirring the food. I used to be doing a million things at the same time, but there was just some peace and quiet, and it was nice.
Of course, when it was four times in one night and you couldn’t see straight, you’re not venerated. You’re crazy. But I didn’t mind it. There was that little bit of together time, that one-on-one that I used to enjoy. People don’t have to understand you. You have to be happy. We don’t expect other people to be happy with what makes us happy. I didn’t expect other people to think that they were happy with it, too. I understand that a woman wants to sleep. I understand that. But the thing is, if you are happy, then you’re going to be a good wife and a good mother.
If you’re really not happy, you have to try to search for what you need in your life that you could do. Not what your husband has to do for you, not what your husband has to give you, not what he has to be for you, not that he has to be there, take you places, or buy you things. It’s not him. The focus should be on you. What do I really want with my life? Where do I really want to go with my life? How could I grow? How could I make myself feel more fulfilled? What can I do? The world is open. Things are there. You may not be able to do it now, but you could do it in the future, and you could take little steps to get there, whatever your thing is, whatever you want to do.
Baruch Hashem, when your children are little, it should be there: you want to be the best mother, so you buy all those projects for them or the workbooks, or you cut out shapes and things. And I love it.
My husband and I—we saw in a catalog, and we’re the grandparents, you know—this little wooden container that held 12 different scissors, and each scissor cut in a different kind of wiggly way. So we went and got it. We ordered it. I save these things. I get these magazines, toy magazines and things like that odd, and I see something and say, “Oh, the kids are going to like to cut these things out.” Harry and David have these fruits. They’re so pretty. We don’t buy them, but they’re pretty. They send me the catalog. So I say, “Oh, they’re going to...” They like to do projects, so I save these things for them. They come to my house, and I have the glue, different kinds of scissors, colored paper, and magazines to cut up and use for projects. I’m thinking they like to do those kinds of things. How can I enhance it? How can I do?
What I’m telling you is that when your children are little, they should be your main priority. But you can maximize it. You can maximize it. You can want to be the best, give them that extra time, that extra skill, that extra something, and connect with them in a way.
I remember once reading an article in Reader’s Digest. This Chinese lady taught her children at home. She didn’t even send them to school, and it was a crazy, crazy story. She used to wake up crazy early in the morning so she could take care of her own needs before dawn. Then, when the kids woke up, she was ready for them, and she had them on this system of learning and doing. I don’t know, but they ended up at college level at the age of 10, you know, crazy. She made it her passion. She might have psychologically damaged her children for the end of time, and I’m not saying we should do this. But it left an impression on me that being a mother is a profession. Being a mother is a profession. If you want to look at it with respect and take it for all it’s got and all you can give it, there’s a lot you could do in it. There’s a lot you could be. There’s a lot you could grow with it. There’s really a lot you could respect in yourself in that role.
Whatever our role is, my point is that very often a woman feels frustrated in her role, and therefore she’s unhappy in her marriage because she blames her husband for her frustration. We shouldn’t do that, because it’s just going to keep us stuck in that position. We do it specifically to keep ourselves stuck because we’re afraid to grow, because change might be scary, because we have to take risks and do things that might be a little harder than staying status quo. So it’s easier to blame our husbands and do nothing, because it’s easier that way.
The truth is, we should understand that our happiness and our growth are our own responsibility. If I feel frustrated and resentful, I should evaluate where I can make changes in myself to grow, become stronger, and respect myself more. When a woman doesn’t respect herself, she’s not happy. You have to respect yourself.
Whatever your role is, I always respected my role as a mother. I always respected my role as a mother. When I needed to bring in extra money, I ran a playgroup for 14 years in my own house so that I could be a mother to everybody. I did that because that was my role, my love, my profession: taking care of children was what I wanted to do. But whatever it is that you feel you need in your life, look into it. Look into what you could do to make yourself feel fulfilled and happy. That happiness will spill over to your husband and children, because when you’re happy, you’ll be able to give love and happiness to the people around you whom you love.