Siman (section) resh-nun-gimmel, and we’re in Aruch HaShulchan (Code of Jewish Law), se'if (paragraph) lamed-zayin. “Ve'omer od: Lachen nohagim she'enam Yehudim motzi'im hakedorot min hatannurim umoshivim otam etzel bet hachoref (winter room).” What does it say? Since it has been explained that you may not tell a non-Jew to heat the tavshil (cooked dish), you can’t tell the goy (non-Jew)—according to the Rama (Rabbi Moses Isserles), as we learned yesterday—to heat it, because that would be chazarah (returning food to heat), and you can’t tell the goy to do chazarah. The Bi'ur Halachah (Explanation of the Law) said that if it’s a davar yavesh (dry food), you have something to rely on to tell the goy lechatchilah (in the first instance) to put it back, because he held that it is only derabbanan (rabbinically prohibited), a shevut dishvut (rabbinical prohibition within a prohibition). That was the Bi'ur Halachah.
So he says, “Lachen, heminhag she'eino Yehudi motzi hakederah mehatannur, umoshivah al hatannur shebevet hachoref, kodem shehussak hatannur, she'az adayin eino oseh kelum.” The custom is that the non-Jew takes the pot out of the oven and puts it by the heating system for the house before it is turned on, when it is still doing nothing. Afterward, he turns on the heating system, and the tavshil gets heated automatically. There is no prohibition, since his intention is not to heat the food but to heat the house. You are allowed to tell the goy to turn on the heat for the house because it’s cold and everybody is sick. The tavshil gets heated automatically.
Even though there is ha'aramah—it’s a trick over here, a way you figured out to heat your food on Shabbat—the goy is doing this ha'aramah. Why? So he says that even if the tavshil was cold and got heated a lot, it is permitted to eat, whether it is a yavesh tavshil or a liquid tavshil. Wow. Perhaps this is a timer, and precisely this is what we’ll get to with the timers. Perhaps you can even tell the non-Jew, “Turn on the heat,” knowing that when he turns it on, the food will get heated again, even though you lost all the tenai chazarah (conditions for returning food to heat). There are no tenai chazarah; everything was lost. But it’s okay. That’s what the Rama is going to say.
Continue to lamed-heh… chet. All this is when the goy does it. But when a Jew does it—when the Jew puts the pots that have cooled down by the heating system, and afterward the non-Jew turns it on and they get heated—that is a complete prohibition, and it is close to a Torah prohibition. Why? We learned the Rambam (Maimonides) on this: “Kegon, kemo, echad noten et ha'ur ve'echad noten et hamayim”—one person puts on the fire and another puts on the water. What does it say in the din (law) there? “Shenehem chayavim”—they are both liable. Here, one person put down the pot and another person put on the fire, so that is a problem.
However, that is when the pots are cold. By the way, he is talking even about cold liquid here. But if the pots are still hot, it is permitted for the Jew himself to put them by the heating system. Since our heating systems have the din of a kirah, placing the food by the heating system is semichah—putting it on the side, not putting it on the top. Semichah by a kirah that is not gerufah uchetumah (swept and covered) has the same law as shehayah (leaving food on heat) or chazarah on a gerufah uchetumah. So, if it is hot, putting it by the heating system is considered semichah. It is not considered putting it on the oven itself. “Like a radiator.” Exactly, something like that. There was something heating it; I don't know, it was a furnace of coals, who knows what there was. You're talking about a radiator of central heating; I'm talking about the times of the Rama. So what is this line saying?
What is this line saying? “Aval im hakedorot adayin chamot, mutar leYisrael be'atzmo leha'amidam batanur bet hachoref.” That's kavanat Be'er. “Detanurim shelanu yesh lahem din kirah.” No, I understand: the oven is like a kirah today. Fine. So whatever this is, it is like a kirah. “Veha'amadah al hatanur havei semichah.” Putting this on the oven is considered semichah on a kirah. And we said it is okay to be somech on a kirah that is not gerufah uchetumah. Somech means putting it on the side, not putting it on the top. “Havei kedin hashahah o chazarah bigerufah uchetumah”—which is okay.
So he is telling you that it is permitted only if you have the tenai chazarah. But why didn’t he say that if it’s hot? Because if it’s hot, I’m not doing anything that is considered chazarah; it’s hot and you’re not cooking. Maybe this is a liquid? Yes, if it’s a liquid item and it’s hot, and I put it next to the heat, there’s no problem. But I’m not going to let you put a cold item there when you know the non-Jew is going to come and turn it on. If it’s hot and you put it next to it, dayenu.
“Vedar zeh kavanat Be'er she'anu matirin mechazarah beShabbat, afilu henichah al hakarka, kemo shenitba'er bese'if kaf-gimel.” What does this mean, that we permit returning food on Shabbat even if you put it on the floor? Since we permit returning it on Shabbat even if it was put on the floor, the law certainly permits semichah by a kirah that is not gerufah uchetumah, since the pot is still hot and fully cooked. This is the widespread custom to permit it.
That’s a big story. Let’s go to the Rama and read it inside, to see exactly what he says. Something practical will come out of this law. As you said, the timer is the practical application. Basically, what is a timer? You put something in a spot, and then something else takes over. That’s going to be the answer. Here you put the food down, and the non-Jew turns on the heater, which heats the dishes.
There’s another issue, Rabbi: the distinction here is that they’re talking about a furnace, a place where you don’t cook. On a blech, I understand. Look at what he says. First line, rabotai: this is all talking about what the Rama said in the beginning, in the first halachah: “Lachen asur lomar le'eino Yehudi lechamem hakederah im nitztanen. Im asah chen, asur le'ochlo, afilu tzonen.” You can’t tell the non-Jew to heat the pot that cooled down. If he did, the whole story there is that it is forbidden to eat it, even cold.
However, if it didn’t cool down so much that it is no longer fit to eat, and the non-Jew warmed it, it is permitted to eat. Look at the Mishnah Berurah (Clear Mishnah), tzadi-zayin: “She'adayin re'uyim le'echol.” Although you benefit from the heating, it is permitted after the fact. Why? Because you could have eaten it without heating. It was edible. Even if the non-Jew put it on the open fire itself on Shabbat, wow, even then the tavshil is not forbidden after the fact. Why? Because it had not cooled down so much; it was permitted to eat, the Mishnah Berurah says.
Even if the non-Jew heated a tavshil and meat together, and the tavshil had not initially been fit to eat because it was cold, the meat is not forbidden, because it was fit to eat even cold. Wow. So he put a tavshil and meat together. The tavshil was okay—cold gravy. The tavshil itself wasn’t fit to eat, but the meat was. Since one item was fit to eat, even though he put them together, it will still be okay. “Even though we can eat only the meat?” No, he doesn’t say that. He doesn’t say that, my friend. Gravy, chunks of gravy—he heats it. Exactly. So you could have eaten the meat cold, but not the gravy. The Mishnah Berurah is telling you that since it is one item now, that is also okay.
Now the Rama puts his principle into practice: “Lachen nohagim she'einam yehudim motzi'im hakedirot min hatanurim shematminim bahem, umoshibim otam etzel hatanur bebeit hachoref o alav, umva'eret hashifchah achar kach hatanur hahu, ve'al yedei zeh hakedirot chozrot umitchamemim. Aval al yedei Yisrael asur, vechi hai gavna.” That is from Terumat Hadeshen (Contribution of the Ashes).
The Mishnah Berurah explains that “nohagim” refers to the case under discussion. Since it is forbidden to tell the non-Jew to heat or warm the food, the custom is for the non-Jew to take a tavshil that has cooled completely and put it on the oven before it is lit, when there is no fire in the oven and therefore no prohibition. When he lights the oven afterward, his main intention is only to heat the house, which is permitted because everybody is sick from the cold. He is not intending to heat the tavshil.
Even though this is a pesik reisha (inevitable consequence), meaning that when the house is heated, the tavshil will get heated automatically, nevertheless, when telling the non-Jew to do it, it is a shevut in which there is no ma'aseh—there’s no action—so we are not stringent about all this, and it is permitted even as a pesik reisha. That is also a principle of Chacham Ovadia, the Mishnah Berurah is telling you. We do not apply the rule of pesik reisha to a non-Jew. For example, you tell a goy to open the refrigerator even though the light will go on. There is no ma'aseh.
“That’s pesik reisha.” Yes, the goy is turning on the fire. But the food cooking is not the action. You’re right that the non-Jew is turning on the fire, but what’s the action? You’re turning on a fire. The fire heats the house and, at the same time, the food. It’s a pesik reisha: the goy did it. “Ein pesik reisha legabei goy.” So they hold that the goy can take the food from a cold place and put it in a place that will eventually be heated, and then another servant comes along and turns it on. All of a sudden, you can have hot food on Shabbat. “Maybe it’s better if it’s two goyim doing this?” No.
“Veda dechol zeh be'iblech.” Ah, that’s the whole thing. It’s in the be'iblech. The oven is very large, with room inside for fire and wood, in the heating room of the house. As you said, people do not cook in these things, and they cook on top of the oven. So we can say that the non-Jew’s main intention when he turns it on is to heat the house, not to cook the pots that are standing on top of the oven. But ovens called English kitchens, which people use to cook on top of during the week, are a complete prohibition: it is forbidden to have the non-Jew heat the food, even before he lights it, because he is certainly lighting it for the pots.
Look at the numbers here, rabbotai. Let’s see if anything practical comes out of this. Line sixty-six. Nobody is ma'amid on that. It’s amazing. That means if the non-Jew puts something on the electric platah, which is not… “Turn on the platah?” Yes, turn on the platah. “That’s a place where there’s no cooking. You tell her, ‘Bring the hot food in at 12:00, 10:00 in the morning.’” No, she is not turning on a platah on Shabbat. That’s not what he is saying. This is turning on a heating element.
“Why is a goy different? If he asked the goy to do a pesik reisha—” That’s not pesik reisha. Pesik reisha is that I’m heating the house, and automatically the thing gets heated. I tell the non-Jew, “Turn on the light.” He turns it on. I don’t have pesik reisha. “You’re telling the goy to do a prohibition.” You have to tell the goy to do something permitted: “Go heat up the house.” It is permitted; everybody is cold. But I already made a ha'aramah: I put the food there, and the other non-Jew put it there already.
Pesik reisha is that he’s turning on the heat, which is permissible. I can tell the goy to turn on the heat. Right, and it warms the food. It’s not meant for food. I’m telling him to do something I’m allowed to tell him to do: “Go turn on the heat.” He’s doing something permitted, but he turns on the fire and, all of a sudden, he has heated my food at the same time. The Rama comes along and says this is going to be okay: ein pesik reisha by a non-Jew. It’s a rare case. Correct, the commentators say that we don’t cook like this and don’t have a situation like that.
The Bi'ur Halachah was more lenient. It says that since the food was already fully cooked and the meat is yaveish, the only issue is chazarah. It could be that he is lenient here too. “Efshar deheikef zeh al yedei akum ein gozrin bo,” and then he says that as long as there is no gravy, there is no concern even lechatchilah. In this section, it sounds like several authorities do not hold that way. Nevertheless, one may rely on the lenient opinions in a pressing situation. The Bi'ur Halachah gave a heter (permission) on this. No, he said no. “Veyeish lismoch bish'at hadechak al kein bazeh.” The Bi'ur Halachah.
“Boiler in the basement.” It could be, but I think he’s talking about an oven. You could cook in a fireplace. Let’s finish the Rama. “Velachen nohagim she'einam yehudim motzi'im hakedirot min hatanurim shematminim, umoshivim otam etzel hatanur be'et hachoref o alav, umav'eret hashifchah achar kach hatanur hahu, ve'al yedei zeh hakedirot chozrim venirtochim. Aval al yedei Yisrael asur.” But why can’t I put it on the oven when it’s cold, and then later say, “Turn on the heat, please”? That is the case of putting it on the timer beforehand, on Shabbat, like Chacham Ovadia said you could. “On Shabbat, Chacham Ovadia, I’m allowed to put the thing on the timer when it’s off, even if it’s a davar lach?” There’s no problem; it goes on when it goes on. It’s beautiful. I take the davar lach, and it’s the same thing here: it’s cold and I put it by the oven. I’m not causing anything. “Telling the non-Jew to do it—that’s the difference. I’m a little more involved than with the timer.” We’re going to see that now.
Look at kuf in the Mishnah Berurah. It is forbidden in this case to put the pot by the oven. He means placing it by or on the heating system, even before it is lit, is like setting down the pot and lighting the fire oneself: the first person is exempt, but it is forbidden. That is not so when telling the non-Jew, which is permitted, because the non-Jew’s main intention is to heat the house.
From this, it seems that if the non-Jew puts water into the pot fixed in the oven so it will heat up, the Jew is permitted to benefit from that water to wash dishes. Even lechatchilah, it is permitted to wash dishes with it, all the more so because even in the case where the food is put on the oven with the intention of warming it, it is permitted. Here, the intention is not to heat the water, but to prevent the pot from bursting. Perhaps even if he puts the water in after the oven is lit, it is permitted for the same reason. Nevertheless, you may not tell the non-Jew, after he lights it, to put water in it, because then you want that result. The Jew may not put the water in there either.
Now let’s go to our case. The Kaf Hachayim says this is obviously during the winter. It is not gerufah uchetumah; it has regular coals in there. Nobody covers the coals. It’s the regular mechanism of the heating room, like a fireplace. And then the last line of the Rama says, “Aval im hakedeirot adayin chamim, mutar le'amidan etzel tanur beit hachoref.” There you can put it next to the oven. “Etzel” means next to it, like semichah, and semichah is permitted. Since our ovens are like a kirah, placing food next to a kirah that is not gerufah uchetumah has the status of placing it on a gerufah uchetumah for this purpose.
The Mishnah Berurah says it is permitted to put them there even if the Jew does it, even after the oven has been lit. But putting them on top is forbidden, since it is certainly not gerufah uchetumah. Next to it is okay, because even though it is not gerufah uchetumah, semichah is permitted. Even before the oven is lit, it is forbidden to put it on top, because there is concern that one might stoke the coals to increase the heat. That concern does not apply to my timer or hotplate, where there are no coals to stoke.
But the world has the custom to permit putting hot pots on top before the oven is lit. That is different. After it is lit, I have not seen this permitted, because you need to put a board or wood underneath the pot. All right, this is a whole story about the Rama. For practical halachah lema'aseh—very important halachah—all this is not so relevant to us, except regarding the timer. Regarding the timer, we already said there are leniencies, and that its case is different from this one.
I want to read this Rama one more time to get the flow, because there’s one more point to point out. Look at the beginning of Hei: “Mutar latet al pi kedeirat chamim beShabbat tavshil shenitbashel me'erev Shabbat kol tzorko, kegon pandish.” You have the panadish. It was cooked before Shabbat. You want to take the panadish and put it on a pot of food to heat it. “Lefi she'ein derech bishul bekach”—that is not the usual way of cooking. Maran (our master) doesn’t mention any tenai chazarah. It sounds like it could have been on the floor; who knows where it was. I can take it, reheat the panadish, and put it on top of a pot. Correct?
We’ll learn that regarding this, we have a davar yavesh, as the Magen Avraham (Shield of Abraham) will tell you. With a davar yavesh cooked completely, you don’t need tenai chazarah as long as you’re putting it somewhere that is not a usual way of cooking. Putting it on a pot is not a usual way of cooking. So there’s no problem. Here is the heter for taking food out of the fridge and putting it on the blech.
Now, what is in this panadish? We haven’t discussed this point, the point the boys were asking about. You have this karush stuff. It’s like a sambusak, whatever it is, and it has congealed fat. When you put it back on, I don’t care about the davar yavesh: the congealed fat will become uncongealed, melt, and turn into a liquid. Now it’s a liquid, and you’re heating a liquid on Shabbat. That’s going to be the question.
The Mishnah Berurah says, “She'en derech bishul bekach.” You see peh-zayin? Although we hold that it is forbidden lechatchilah to put hot food on a kirah, even if it is fully cooked, and even when it is gerufah uchetumah, the reason is that it looks like cooking; that is the usual way of cooking. But here, it is not the usual way of cooking, because the pot is in between, and it doesn’t look like cooking. If there is a lot of congealed fat, one should be stringent. Wow! Because of nolad (newly created substance)? Nolad, not even cooking.
“Shenimchah vashav…” as it says in siman shin-yud-chet, se'if tet-zayin, in the gloss. Rabotai, there’s a sugya here. Open up shin-yud-chet, tet-zayin. “Mutar liten empanada keneged ha'esh bimkom shehayad soledet bo.” You can put this empanada next to the fire, in a place where the hand recoils from the heat, even though the fat in it is congealed and will melt again. Maran is telling you it is permitted! Look at the Mishnah Berurah for a second. Empanada is pashtida (it’s like a calzone). It is mentioned in many places; it is a folded pastry filled with pieces of fat. You put it there to warm it. The reason it is permitted is that it is dry; even if it has cooled, there is no longer cooking. Go on: it’s dry, it’s already cooked, and I’m putting it next to the fire. No problem.
Even though the fat will melt, the whole thing is considered dry. Here’s the reasoning: when you put it there to warm it, it has not yet melted. “Keneged ha'esh” means on top of some utensil that intervenes. He solved that problem. Unbelievable. So Maran is telling you it’s okay. Even though the fat that was congealed in it will melt again, Maran says he is not concerned about the fat.
Why does the Mishnah Berurah say it is an issue of nolad? That’s not Maran giving his opinion yet; the Rama is going to be stringent. So he is saying nolad—that’s the Rama, the gloss, and the Mishnah Berurah. “Vechol sheken kedeirah sheyesh bah rotev shenikrash.” A pot has some gravy that congealed, and when the fat melts it is not visible, so it is permitted. There are those who are stringent, and that is the custom to be stringent.
Look at the Mishnah Berurah, kuf-dalet: when it melts, the fat mixes with the gravy and is not recognizable. That is different from the case where Maran has a solid and a liquid. When the fat liquefies, you see liquid. The Rema says all the more so if the item is liquid and some of it congealed: when it liquefies, you just see liquid. What nolad is there?
He says it is permitted only regarding the prohibition of nolad, but there is still the prohibition of cooking. The gravy is a liquid, and a liquid that has cooled is subject to cooking, as the Mechaber wrote earlier. Therefore, it is permitted here only if you put the pot in a place where the hand does not recoil from the heat. There are those who are stringent even in the case where the fat is mixed with the gravy, because even if you don’t see the nolad, it is not like the case where one puts it into a cup. That was discussed regarding ice. Look at the Mishnah Berurah, kuf-bet.
You are not allowed to crush snow and hail on Shabbat because you are changing them from solid to liquid. It says it is forbidden because of nolad, since you are creating water. Therefore, it is forbidden even with “asplor vesoluch,” because here one does not do anything with his hands. With ice, you are doing it with your hands; here, I’m putting it on the fire and it happens by itself. It’s a little different.
As it says in the halachah, if I have a cup of water and drop an ice cube into it, it is permitted. Why? It melted by itself. Pouring water on the ice is a problem, but if I have water in the cup and drop in the ice cubes, it is permitted. Why? It melts automatically; there’s no problem. The same thing here: I put it on the fire, and it melts automatically. I didn’t smash it with my hands. That is Maran’s opinion.
The Mishnah Berurah, kuf-heh, points out a difference: “Aval shuman shenimcha tzaf lema'alah venikar hu.” When you put an ice cube in a cup, you don’t see anything. But when this fat melts, it floats to the top, so you see it. Even putting it in the sun is forbidden. So he doesn’t like this, rabotai. They are stringent about it, and this happens all the time when you put food back that has fat. “Veyesh lehachmir.” Of course there is a heter; Maran permits it. But our custom is to be stringent. That is what the Mishnah Berurah said: when we told you that you could put this panadish back, make sure you get the karush out of it. Don’t get the karush involved.
Peh-zayin says that if there is a lot of congealed fat, one should be stringent. The Rama says, “Uvimkom tzorech yesh lismoch al divrei hamakillin.” In a place of need, one may rely on the lenient opinions. Then he says that even according to those who are stringent, it is forbidden only when there is a lot of fat on the pastry, so that when it melts it flows out and is visible. If the pastry does not have so much fat, or if you pour some out, it is permitted according to everyone. Even though some fat remains inside, it is a small amount, and it is permitted according to everyone. He makes a distinction.
What about us? Open up number 60. This is a very important practical halachah. “Ach, ayein beShulchan Aruch (Set Table), shin-yud-chet se'if tet-zayin, shehitir gam kesheyesh bah shuman shenikpash vechozer venimo'ach. Velo dami lerisuk sheleg uvarad.” Don’t tell me it’s like crushing ice. That is forbidden because it creates something, but this case is different because you are not doing anything with your hands. It melts automatically. He explains in Or LeTziyon (Light of Zion), lamed-alef. Michael, do you have it there? All right, read it.
But there aren’t any distinctions in Maran, so are you telling me that according to Maran I can take the roast that has all this karush stuff on it? “Depends how much.” No, Maran doesn’t give me distinctions. When I get back, it’s all whatever. What are you worried about? Maran says it’s okay. “There ain’t no nolad.” There is no nolad here; it happens automatically. “Am I reheating a liquid now?” Is it liquid now? Yes. Either you’ll tell me that when I put it there it wasn’t liquid, or you’ll tell me that the small amount of liquid is part of the item and it’s okay. Didn’t we say it wasn’t yad soledet bo? For us, it can be yad soledet bo; for Ashkenazim it can’t. But for us, if we say you’re allowed to put it there—unless, of course, you’re talking about soup. You’re right: soup has to be next to the fire, where it won’t reach yad soledet bo.
Michael, please read. “Ha'im mutar latet al hapach she'al gabei ha'esh o al haplatah chashmalit ma'achal kar sheharotev shebo karush… karush.” That’s exactly the question we just asked: is it permitted to put cold food on the blech or electric platah when the gravy in it is congealed and will melt as it warms, or is it treated like an item with gravy that can be put there only if… Exactly. What is his answer?
“Umutar latet beShabbat ma'achal karush al machtzit hapach o al haplatah bemakom she'ein tachtav esh.” That is always Chacham Ben Tzion (Rabbi Ben Zion Abba Shaul)’s rule. Chacham Ben Tzion does not let you return food to the black, on top where the fire is; he only allows the sides. Even though placing it on the platah will melt it and turn it into gravy, it is better to be stringent that most of the tavshil be truly dry, with only a little congealed gravy. He says most of it should not be congealed.
What’s the difference? I don’t think there is one. There’s no nolad and no… Nolad is an issue when there is a lot, like the Mishnah Berurah says. That’s for Ashkenazim; Sefaradim… What did he say below? “Mutar latet empanada keneged ha'esh…” That’s shin-yud-chet, tet-zayin. It says Maran permitted it even when there is congealed fat that will melt. “Venir'eh beta'am hadavar mishum sheyesh kan shtei kulot.” There are two leniencies.
First, since it is dry now, there is no cooking after cooking in a dry item. At first it is dry as it is there; only afterward will it become liquid. So even if this is considered cooking a liquid, it is only gerama. “I didn’t do it.” Gerama is forbidden only rabbinically, as explained in Shabbat kuf-kaf, amud bet. The worst it can be is gerama. Asiyah is what is forbidden; gerama is permitted.
However, some want to say that with cooking, even gerama is forbidden by Torah law, even though gerama in all the other melachot is rabbinic. That is because all cooking is only by gerama: I put it on the fire and the fire cooks it, so it is always gerama. That’s not like a case where, for example, I do another plowing. How am I plowing by gerama? Here, I put it on the fire, nothing happens, and then the fire cooks it. So it could be that even gerama is forbidden.
See Merkavat HaMishneh on chapter tet of the laws of Shabbat, halachah daled. He holds that the ma'aseh of cooking is what is forbidden—the actual putting it on—even though the cooking itself happens only by gerama. So, if the ma'aseh of cooking is by gerama, it is not forbidden at all. That is one side of the argument.
Second, even if you consider it cooking a liquid, there is a machloket (dispute) among the Rishonim (early authorities) about whether there is cooking after cooking in a liquid. According to the Rambam, chapter kaf-bet of the laws of Shabbat, halachah chet, there is no cooking after cooking, even in a liquid. The Rambam does not distinguish between liquid and dry food. The Rosh does distinguish between liquid and dry, as explained in the Beit Yosef there. The distinction arose because it was difficult to reconcile the Gemara: “Kol sheba b'chamin me'erev Shabbat, shorin oto b'chamin b'Shabbat”—anything that was in hot water before Shabbat may be soaked in hot water on Shabbat, like tarnegolta d-Rabbi Abba—and the rule that there is no cooking after cooking, with the Gemara that says not to soak something on Shabbat, lest it heat up. Why would that be a problem if there is no cooking after cooking? So the Rishonim distinguished between liquid and dry. The Rambam did not have that version of the Gemara, so he ruled that there is no cooking after cooking in a liquid.
As the Be'ur ha-Gra explains, in practice there are two leniencies: first, this is gerama in cooking, since I’m not cooking it directly; second, there is no cooking after cooking. Maran was lenient on this basis. That is why Maran permitted it. Are you reheating a liquid? First, you’re not reheating it directly; you’re reheating it by gerama. This is the reasoning for Maran’s leniency about the congealed fat.
This is besides the issue of nolad. Why not discuss the nolad issue? You’re not doing it by hand. All right, but you’re reheating a liquid. You’re reheating a liquid by gerama. By the way, that is Chacham Ben Tzion’s heter: reheating a liquid by gerama. That is exactly the heter of Chacham Ovadia regarding a timer. What am I doing in practice? I put cold soup on the timer while it is off on Shabbat, knowing it will turn on. So that is gerama. Here it is better, because there are two conditions. I also have the condition that the soup was cooked.
“Over here it’s liquid; that’s cooking.” No, here it’s fat, and at the time you put it there, it was congealed. “So he says that with meat and fat too?” No, it’s not liquid. I’m saying that you told me Maran is relying on gerama and this is the same two leniencies: gerama and no cooking after cooking. Or, as Chacham Ben Tzion says, what is the reasoning for Maran’s leniency with congealed fat? The question is, “Are you reheating liquid on Shabbat?” Heaven forbid. How am I reheating liquid on Shabbat? It isn’t liquid right now. I’m reheating it by gerama. “He doesn’t hold that it’s liquid.” Yes, besides the liquid issue, it’s gerama; no problem. I didn’t heat it directly. I put it on the fire when it was congealed, and perhaps afterward it will turn into liquid. Right now, I didn’t put anything liquid there.
He is only permitting it if it is a small amount. That’s why it is gerama; it has to be a small amount. Chacham Ben Tzion takes it a little further. But the bottom line is that you see the same reasoning: gerama and the heter of no cooking after cooking. Those are the two leniencies.
“Ve-le'or zeh, da'at Maran le-hakel b-ma'achal karush ve-chulo rotev. Ach mi-kol makom, yesh makom lomar, shema lo hitir Maran ela b-mu'at rotev.” Maybe Maran was lenient only when there is a small amount of gravy. Why, if you don’t want to make a distinction? “U-khemo sheyesh omrim sheb-mu'at rotev ein bishul achar bishul.” According to this explanation, there is room to be stringent and leave only an item whose congealed gravy is not most of the tavshil, but only a small amount.
So Chacham Ben Tzion wants to say that even though Maran does not make those distinctions, Maran’s wording implies that he doesn’t say how much. He just says that if it has congealed gravy, it is permitted to put it on. “Oh, then you could put frozen soup on, if you want to go with that logic.” Exactly. He’s not going to allow that in practice. “Why not?” Because it has to be a small amount. This would be most of it. I know he’s saying that; I want to know who is saying it.
Look at what Chazon Ovadiah (Vision of Ovadiah) says here about butter. “Ve'ayein beChazon Ovadiah sheheivi beshem haTzelach.” Who is the Tzelach? Tzelach is, what do you call it? Ezekiel Landau, Noda BiYehudah (Known in Judah). “Shegam chem'ah kefu'ah yesh lah din yavesh le'inyan zeh.” That’s the butter. Frozen butter is considered dry for this purpose. But there could be a distinction between frozen and congealed. When you say frozen soup, we’ve always been unsure whether, if you leave it, it will melt by itself and might therefore have the status of liquid.
Butter would melt on its own. Butter is really solid at normal room temperature. Why are you telling me that? I know why I would put butter on Shabbat; just tell me technically. He wants it soft. Margarine, maybe. Now, pashtida: “Shemidei de'afukei tikun shel basar veshuman mutar letitnah al haplatah o keneged hamedurah bemakom shehayad soledet bo, af al gav she'al yedei chen hashuman nimo'ach.” Even though the fat will melt, when you put it there to warm it, it is dry. Even if it had cooled, there is no cooking, because we hold that there is no cooking after cooking. “But it’s going to turn into liquid?” When you put it there, it was solid. Leave me alone, you’re a wise guy. That is what the Shulchan Aruch ruled.
The Levush wrote that this is a great leniency, but he did not find this in any of the authorities. It seems to me that he is mistaken. Maran said it is permitted even in a place where the hand recoils from the heat. The Levush’s position was that it had to be in a place where the hand does not recoil from the heat. Shut Maharam Shik agrees with him, and it is also brought in Orchot Chayim (Ways of Life): it is permitted to place a panada to warm it by the fire, even if the fat that congealed in it will liquefy, since it was already cooked before Shabbat. Maharam says it is permitted even close to the fire, where the hand recoils from the heat. The Rashba also says it is permitted to put a cup containing panadish on a pot whose food was cooked before Shabbat, even if the hand recoils from the heat and even if the pot is on the fire, because it is not the usual way of cooking. The Ritva says the same, even if the hand recoils from the heat. Maran ruled this way in the Shulchan Aruch. The Machaneh Kohen discussed it at length and refuted the Levush. Even where the hand recoils from the heat, there is no problem.
The Rav Chida—Rabbi Chaim Yosef David Azulai—also wrote that the main ruling is like this, in a place where the hand recoils from the heat. The Ran wrote this, and so did others. Does this deal with David’s case of frozen food? Not yet. Where is the case of the butter? Where is shin-ayin-bet? If he is quoting the Tzelach, it has to be there. Here it is, Baruch Hashem: “Vechen katav hagaon Tzelach bechidushav leShabbat deha dekayma lan bedin Shabbat she'ein bishul achar bishul beyavesh, gam chem'ah kefu'ah yesh lah din yavesh.” Even congealed butter has the status of a dry item. “Af al gav shehashuman nimo'ach.” This congealed fat has the status of dry food.
What would Maran say? It’s permitted; it’s going to melt, and could you be cooking it? Hello, now it’s dry. “Legabei dideih de'ein shear bishul, ayein sham.” It’s solid. Igrot Moshe (Letters of Moses) wrote this for himself, and Or LeTziyon, volume bet, wrote it too. It was cooked, of course. Butter is cooked; it’s pasteurized, whatever they did.
By the way, that butter is all karush. It’s one solid piece of karush, and you’re putting it back on the heat. What’s the difference between a whole piece of congealed butter and a whole soup that has congealed? “No, karush—you mean congealed or frozen?” I’m saying frozen might be different. I want to understand the distinction. Butter is thick; it is still solid. What’s the difference between this and soup that is like this? You’re taking a solid and making it liquid. That’s the point: once it is thick, that’s his rule. “Keivan she'atah besha'ah shehu notno lechamo yavesh.” He calls it dry now, but it’s going to melt.
Chacham Ben Tzion gives a whole pilpul. He says, “No, because it’s gerama and there is no cooking after…” He gives a whole story, chavivi. Come on, you’re just saying “sodah, sodah, sodah, sodah.” The bottom line is that when I put it on the fire, it’s hot. That is it. We look at it as it is. Bring us Yalkut Yosef in English. Do we have Yalkut Yosef in English over there? Ashkenazim would never… Ashkenazim are stringent. Ah, nothing to talk about.
Very important, rabotai. This happens all the time. Now your wife is going to start putting food back on the fire and see congealed fat there. Leave her alone! She’ll put the kubah chamudah in the freezer to congeal, and then she can put it back on the fire. That’s a second way for you. Then she could put it back on Saturday morning. The question is why you won’t be eating lunch until 9:00 at night. Throw it in, whatever. It takes a long time to… Let’s see if he talks about it here. He doesn’t discuss it in this siman, although you know why? Because there is no shin-yud-chet in this one. It’s another one; we have it over there.
Bring us the book. Here it is. We need to know about fat, that’s what we need to see. What’s the bottom line on this halachah? Congealed fat, beautiful. Kuf-ayin-alef. You see, he made halachot about butter. This is incredible. We’ll start, rabotai; tomorrow we have to continue. There’s a whole piece on it.
Let’s start with the one we did today. We have to go back. Wow, this is a story. “Hafsharat shuman. Karush keneged ha'esh.” The early authorities disagreed about food or pastry that has fat in it which congealed, and that was fully cooked: is it permitted to put it by the fire on Shabbat in a way that the congealed fat will melt? Some of the early authorities forbade this because of nolad, meaning that the fat goes from being solid to liquid, just like ice.
Some of the early authorities forbade it because the melted fat resembles liquid that comes out of fruit, which they prohibited because of a decree lest one squeeze. Another decree: it is like the juice oozing from fruit. I squeezed grapes before Shabbat, and on Shabbat juice is oozing out. I want to drink the grape juice—no, because you might come to squeeze the grapes. Here, it is as if the fat is oozing out.
Many of our early authorities ruled leniently in this matter and gave several reasons why it is not prohibited, either because of Muktzeh (set-aside object) or because of nolad. We say that you are not doing it by hand; with ice, you are doing it by hand. Nor is it the issue of fruit that is intended to become liquid. Therefore, Maran, the Shulchan Aruch, ruled that it is permitted to put on Shabbat a pastry containing congealed fat by the fire, even though the fat in it will melt again. That is also the halachah according to the custom of Sefaradim and Edot HaMizrach. According to the Sefaradi custom, it is also permitted to grill a pastry containing congealed fat on an electric platah or a blech, and so on. No problem. So far, so good.
Now, the Ashkenazi custom. Wow, look how many pages he gives to the Ashkenazim. Would they give us so many pages in their book? No, of course not. Why is he so generous? We have to sponsor the book, and they take the halachot from it. “Be-din ha-amur le'el bi-se'ifim she-be-minhag ha-Sefaradim yesh le-hakel shuman she-nikrash ke-neged ha-esh, aval ha-Ashkenazim ein le-hakel ba-zeh ela ke-she-yesh tzorech,” as we saw in se'if yod-chet. The same applies to congealed gravy: according to the Sefaradi custom, one may be lenient and place it by the fire. Reish-tet. And congealed gravy that people normally eat even while it is congealed—that’s something else for the Ashkenazim.
So we’ll have to start this tomorrow, rabotai. Gravy that became congealed. Basically, his principle is going to be that it follows how it is at the time. I don’t know how far we’re going to take this. “Freezing is not the same.” Wait until you hear it explicitly. Correct, freezing is not the same. Not ice, I don’t think; he’s going to discuss it here. Tomorrow we continue with this fat and all the related material.
Baruch Hashem le-olam amen ve-amen. Chazak u-varuch.