That’s halfway; it’s right in between. You’re not saying, “Just cut it—cut it small.” Especially if you’re mashing: maybe mashing is more of a kulah (leniency). But where there’s no room to say what’s big and what’s small, we didn’t really discuss that. There’s no geder (definition), exactly. What counts as big and small? If they’re cutting it, maybe you could say this is a big piece or a small piece. But if it’s really fine, I accept your point.
All right, Rabotai (gentlemen), let’s go back to the books. Let’s continue where we left off in the Aruch Hashulchan. We’re up to section 8. The Rema writes: “Ach Rabenu ha-Rema katav vezeh leshono: Vehu hadin de’asur lachtoch grogrot vacharuvin lifnei zekenim, vedavka perot vechadomeh lazeh asur.” The same law applies: it is forbidden to cut dried figs and carob for the elders. Vecharuvin is carob. The point is that you want to make it into small pieces for them. He continues: “Aval mutar lefarer lechem lifnei tarnegolim, deho’il uchevar nitchan ein lachush de’ein tochein achar tochein.” It is permitted to crumble bread for chickens, since it has already been ground; there is no concern of grinding after grinding.
Sometimes you take bread and make it into small pieces to put in soup. “Vechol zeh lo mairi ela bechotech umaniach, aval im le’ochlam miyad, hakol shari bisod ha-Rema: miyad havei keborer.” All of this refers only to cutting and leaving it; if you are going to eat it immediately, it is permitted. The Rema considers doing it immediately comparable to sorting, which is permitted when it is for immediate eating, as discussed earlier in section 319.
“Vehineh bazeh demiyad shari, pasak keha-Rashba, uleha-Rosh peshita demutar.” In this matter, he rules like the Rashba, and according to the Rosh, it is obvious that it is permitted, because they hold that there is no grinding prohibition with food. The Tosafot say this as well, even according to Rashi and the Rambam, according to our interpretation. It depends on how you understand the Rambam: he only speaks about raw things—things that need cooking.
“Umikol makom ein re’ayah dela sevira leih ken.” In any case, there is no proof that he does not hold this way. Therefore, the onions that we customarily cut very finely on Shabbat morning and mix with fat, or put into salad or tsholnt, are not prohibited, since we do this before the meal. They do it right before the se’udah (meal); that is le’altar, immediately. He says that even an hour before the meal is considered immediate, as explained in the laws of sorting.
“Ve’afilu sha’ah kodem hase’udah mikrei le’altar, kemo shenitba’er beborer.” Even an hour before the meal is considered immediate. Although sorting is permitted only by hand, that is because sorting is normally done by hand. Grinding, however, is done only with a utensil. If you compare it to sorting, seemingly using a utensil should be forbidden, because even taking food from refuse is forbidden with a utensil. He says it is not comparable to sorting in that respect. Sorting is not done with a utensil, but how else are you going to grind? That is the only way to grind; you need a utensil. “Uchshehutrah le’echol miyad hutrah gam bichli.” Once they permitted it for immediate eating, they permitted using a utensil as well.
So basically, Chacham Ovadia took this ruling of the Rema. That is the whole novel point here, based on what we said yesterday: you can grind for the meal. This is the Rema, and it is the Rashba and Maran in the Beit Yosef, although he does not understand it that way. The wording, “Ach Rabenu ha-Rema,” makes it sound as if the Rema is arguing with Maran. That is how Chacham Ben Tzion understood it.
Someone was here yesterday, so we told him, “Listen, not a day goes by without you mentioning your father.” So, “What did you discuss today?” We told him, “Grinding.” He said, “Hai man defarim silka.” You know, Maran said, “Maran lo chilek.” We went back and forth about whether I read the Beit Yosef. “Okay, chazar bo”—he retracted. Now you’re telling the whole talk. But in practice, this happens a lot: you cut onions very, very fine and put them in salads or on other things.
So, to Benny’s point, it would be permitted, but not just for lunch whenever you want; it is for the meal. Is the Ravad lenient? Is Maran lenient? We are lenient specifically when it is for the meal and immediately—that is, right away. Whether an hour or half an hour counts is already up for discussion. Chacham Ovadia is more stringent. He holds that it is half an hour. Chacham Aruch Hashulchan says an hour. So Chacham Ovadia is more stringent about that.
“Vera’iti mefakpekim”—I have seen people raise objections. This is an important point. “Ve’osrim lachtoch dehak meser habetzalim b’sakin dehak meser.” They prohibit cutting onions with a dehak meser. Meser sounds like a knife, or perhaps some kind of grinder. The onions are being cut with a certain grinder or grater. “Velo nehira li kelal, sheharei zehu gam ken sakin.” I don’t find that convincing at all, because this too is a knife. It is a knife! What difference does it make if it is a grater? Bottom line, it serves the same purpose.
“Vedei bazeh mah sheyesh lachush ule’esor ligror gevinah bemoreg charutz.” That is enough to be concerned about: grating cheese with a moreg charutz, a ridged implement. They call it “Reib? Reibeizen,” made to grind very finely, like flour; that properly constitutes the forbidden labor of grinding. “Aval hasakin dehak meser, harei hu sakin ha’asui bitmunat chatzi igul.” But the dehak meser is a knife made in the shape of a half-circle. It is like a sickle. “Vehу kesakin de’alma.” It is just like an ordinary knife. Why say that Jewish women are acting improperly? They are using the dehak meser on Shabbat, but it is a knife. What difference does it make whether the knife is shaped like this or is straight? It is the same thing.
“Vegam ra’iti mi shekatav de’im chotchim habetzalim shetayim veshalosh sha’ot kodem hase’udah, karov lechiyuv chatat.” I also saw someone write that if they cut the onions two or three hours before the meal, it is close to being liable for a sin-offering. Listen, that is what Benny wanted to tell us: the men are cutting onions two or three hours before the meal, and it is liable for a sin-offering if you hold that this is grinding.
“Vetamhani: atu leit kerabboteinu dematirin legamrei?” I am astonished. Are there not our rabbis who permit it entirely? Liable for a sin-offering? Tosafot says it is permitted, and the Rambam says it is permitted. Slow down. Instead of saying it is liable for a sin-offering, perhaps that is according to one opinion, not all opinions. Don’t be so strict.
“Ulefi de’at Rabbeinu haBeit Yosef, dedavka lemevushal asur.” According to the Beit Yosef, it is specifically something intended to be cooked that is forbidden. Also, when people do it before the meal for that meal, it is considered immediate, and it is impossible to calculate the time exactly. He is lenient. He is saying that you are doing it for the meal. Now he has brought in two hours before. It is interesting that he brings in the Beit Yosef here. He is saying that the Beit Yosef understood the Rambam to mean specifically something intended to be cooked. So even according to the Beit Yosef, the Rambam does not say that it is liable for a sin-offering if the food can be eaten raw; it is only something you intend to cook.
“Kemo shekatavnu le’el, shebimkom shelo le’altar, mishacharit lebein ha’arbayim, aval kol shele’otah se’udah, ein chashash.” As we wrote earlier, when it is not immediate—if it is from the morning until the evening—there is a concern. But when it is for that meal, there is no concern. There is room to be lenient even two hours beforehand, he is telling you, because it is for the upcoming meal. Maybe the time from morning until evening is considered too long.
“Uvadai yoter nachon la’asot samuch lase’udah.” It is certainly better to do it close to the meal. I am not telling you that you have to do it two hours beforehand. But when there are many people at the meal, it is necessary to prepare some time in advance. This is where we have the leniency of the Aruch Hashulchan, where Chacham Ovadia was stringent. Remember, we said that for large meals, half an hour is not going to be enough time. Chacham Ovadia said it does not matter; you cannot do it. But the Aruch Hashulchan is giving you the reasoning we discussed. What are you going to do for a large meal? You have a Shabbat with 300 people. Are you going to start cutting everything half an hour beforehand? You will not get it done. That is what he says: “Uckesherabbim bnei hase’udah behechrech lehakkdim eizeh zman lehachin bishvil kulam.” When there are many people at the meal, it is necessary to start preparing some time beforehand for everyone.
So again, you have these leniencies of the Aruch Hashulchan. The reasoning is beautiful. He says, “Omnam zeh shekatav Rabbeinu ha-Rema de’asur lachtoch delu’in vacharuvin lifnei hazekenim, vehi Tosefta.” This is what our master the Rema wrote about cutting gourds and carob for the elders, and it is a Tosefta. “Perek Elu deBeitzah, Tosefta ita: heinu besakin, aval merasko beyad shel sakin uve’etz patur, ve’ein lachush.” The Tosefta says that it is with a knife, but one who crushes it with the handle of a knife or with a piece of wood is exempt, and there is no concern. In other words, it is permitted when done with a deviation, as will be explained.
He is astonished at the Rema for saying that the cutting is forbidden because “dehacha marinan lah chatichah, vehakol echad.” What difference does it make whether you crush it or cut it? “Mah li risuk, mah li chotech.” Someone says it is specifically forbidden for the elders, but permitted for someone who can eat it that way. That is puzzling: if there is a prohibition of grinding, what difference does it make whether the person can eat it or cannot eat it? You might say, “If you can eat it in big pieces, then you can grind it.” But what is that? It is forbidden to grind. If you can eat it in big pieces, it is still forbidden to grind.
“Ve’im ken, gam gabei yerakot ne’emar ken, velo shamanu chiluk zeh mipi haposkim. Ayen se’if haba.” If so, the same should be said about vegetables, but we have not heard this distinction from the halachic authorities. See the next section.
“Ulam ikara deTosefta kashya.” The main point of the Tosefta is difficult. The Rambam wrote that there is no grinding in fruit. The Maggid Mishneh was troubled by this and wrote that he found a version that says there is grinding only in fruit. There are different textual versions there. But our master, the Beit Yosef, says no: the Kesef Mishneh forcefully rejected that version. He said that is not the case. There is grinding in earth, wood, and iron as well. There is grinding in wood, in metal, in everything, as he wrote in section 1.
However, according to what he wrote in section 6, it works out: his intention is that people do not normally cut fruit very finely. That is what he meant: this is not the usual way of grinding. According to this, the Tosefta is speaking properly about elders who necessarily need it cut very finely; that is forbidden. For elders who cannot eat large pieces, it is a problem. The Rema is pointing out that if someone cannot eat large pieces, you can mash a banana for a baby. They permitted mashing the banana for the baby immediately. The Rema is also lenient for immediate use, and the Rambam is also lenient for immediate use.
“Ulefi zeh, shapir kam hadin dehayesh mi she’omer base’if hakodem debemi sheyachol le’ochlo kach ein techinah befeirot, ufashut hu.” According to this, the ruling of the one who says in the previous section that there is no grinding in fruit when a person can eat it as it is is correct. It is straightforward: if you can eat it that way, you are not going to cut it into small pieces. “Pashut hu, dekodem achilah mutar lifnei hazeikenim kemo beyerakot.” Before eating, it is permitted for the elders, just as with vegetables.
That is the discussion there. Now, let’s move on to section 12. “Bebakashah, Ezra, yod-bet.” Please, Ezra, section 12. Our master the Beit Yosef writes in subsection 7: “Yedukhem afilu harbeh yachad, vehu sheyaduch bekata shel sakin uvekearah.” Crush them—even many together—but do so with the handle of a knife and in a bowl.
There is a big point here: pepper. Pilpelin is peppercorns. You want to take the peppercorns and crush them with the back of your knife. What happened to grinding? It sounds as though they definitely say you can do it right before the meal. Right before the meal, no problem. But this is Maran already. Maran does not even say “before the meal.” What is the straightforward reading?
“Kelomar, af al gav dehatochen pilpelin chayav chatat, mikol makom al yedei shinui hitiru.” In other words, even though one who grinds peppercorns is liable for a sin-offering, they nevertheless permitted it when done with a deviation. So you use the back of the glass or the back of the knife. It is not a grinder. How can that help with a Torah-level prohibition? Because when you do it in an unusual manner, it is not called a forbidden labor. Maybe you need two deviations. Let’s see.
“Velachen mah shetzarich le’otah se’udah, hitiru lo. Hashinui hu sheyaduch bekata shel sakin velo berechayim, uvekearah velo bimdocha.” Therefore, they permitted what is needed for that meal. The deviation is to crush it with the handle of a knife rather than with a mill, and in a bowl rather than in the mortar. Someone says one deviation is enough: use the knife handle even in the mortar, or use a bowl even without the knife handle. But it is possible to explain Rashi as requiring two deviations. He writes, “Keivan deka meshaneh shelo verechayim veshelo vimdocha”—since he is changing from using a mill and a mortar. That sounds like Rashi requires two deviations. That is his wording. This is also the main ruling in practice.
For any kind of spice, as long as you make two deviations, you are okay. That is a different issue from putting it on cloth or something where the smell will transfer to the cloth, because then you are causing the creation of fragrance. Spices have a smell, and you are not allowed to create a fragrance on Shabbat. Cologne on your flesh is not an issue of creating fragrance on the body. Hair is a question, and on clothes it is certainly forbidden. You cannot put perfume on cloth. Some people, before going to shul, put perfume on a handkerchief and put it in their pocket to smell it. That is certainly forbidden on Shabbat. Or they spray their clothes with perfume; that is certainly forbidden on Shabbat. So be careful not to crush spices on something that will cause fragrance to be created. That is a side point.
Take out the Tur. Rabbeinu Tam—there are those who hold that this does not apply on Shabbat, which is the view we follow. So there is an important law here, gentlemen: two deviations are required here for something that is a Torah-level prohibition of grinding.
One more point: salt is exempt. Again, you use a wooden spoon or different implements to crush the large pieces of salt. But if the salt was already ground and then congealed again during the cooking process, you can say there is no grinding after grinding. It was already ground, so there is no grinding after grinding.
Open up section 321, gentlemen. What law is this going to be? This is subsection 7. The Rabbi in this section seems to have gone out of order for some reason. Section 7 is correct. Please, let’s read. “Mutar. Uveke’arah.” From Maran, it sounds like you need two deviations. Does the vav mean “and” or “or”? This vav can mean either. Look at the Mishnah Berurah.
Permitted—even one peppercorn. One peppercorn is a Torah-level prohibition. Whether you are liable because it is less than the required measure is another question; perhaps you are not liable for the measures, but it is certainly a Torah-level prohibition. “Afilu harbeh”—even many. You are allowed to do only what you need for that Shabbat. Obviously, you cannot grind more than you need. You can do it on the table; that is fine. Two deviations.
“Aval bevochna.” The bochna may be a certain kind of implement they use. The Taz writes: do not put it in a handkerchief and smash it. That is an easy way to gather the peppercorns, but you are transferring the smell to the handkerchief. That raises the issue of creating fragrance. Perhaps a paper towel would be better.
Look at note 38. What do you mean, “eino mitkaven”—he does not intend to? It is an inevitable result! Look at note 38: “Uve-Mateh Yehudah tamah al ha-Taz.” The Mateh Yehudah questions the Taz; it is an inevitable result, and it is permitted. So what is an inevitable result in a rabbinic prohibition? Since creating fragrance is only rabbinic, perhaps you also need to add that he does not want it or does not care about it. The Kaf HaChaim writes this as well. See there: “Kefi mah shekatavti besifri harishon Rishon LeTzion, sheha-Rambam sover… kedin molid reicha delo nifseka halachah kach.”
All right. We saw in the Shulchan Aruch that some say creating fragrance does not apply on Shabbat, and the Rambam does not hold of creating fragrance. Therefore, according to Chacham Ovadia, you can take the handkerchief and put the item in it, provided you do not intend to put a smell on the handkerchief and are not going to use the handkerchief to smell afterward. Crush it in a way that will inevitably cause a rabbinic result that you do not want, and it is permitted. That is a good law, a very important one—note 38—because that would be the normal way to do it. If you want to gather them together, you would put them in some kind of cloth. See there.
What does the Mishnah Berurah say about this? The Mishnah Berurah says that the Taz retracted, and that he does not intend it in this case. How do you crush the spices? That is what we are discussing: with the back of the utensil or with a deviation. You need two deviations. The later authorities write that it is not only with the left hand; the back of the knife works too.
Look at note 34 in Chacham Ovadia: “Katav Birkei Yosef, mishama de’af bishe’ar ayarot she’anu ein nohagim ken, lefi she’ein beki’im liduch bechatata desakina pilpelin ketushim yafeh, veshema yishbor ha-ke’arah veyavo lefachat lidei issur derabbanan. Vechen ha-Ben Ish Chai katav bazeih shetehei ha-ke’arah avah.” The Birkei Yosef says that this seems to apply even in other towns where people do not follow this practice, because they are not skilled at crushing peppercorns well with the handle of a knife, and perhaps they will break the bowl and thereby come to a rabbinic prohibition. The Ben Ish Chai wrote that the bowl should be thick.
You do not want to bang it into the bowl and break it. We are banging it into a bowl. I suppose the usual implement, the mortar, is solid, whereas a bowl might break when you bang the peppercorns into it. The Kaf HaChaim wrote in his sefer Pitchei Menuchah: “Ein bachashash zeh klum, she’eino muchrach sheyishaver, ve’afilu im yishaver havei davar she’eino mitchaven.” There is nothing to this concern, since it is not certain that the bowl will break; and even if it does break, it is an unintended result. Therefore, he says it is okay.
The next point: the Kaf HaChaim writes that it is permitted specifically when needed for that meal. Again, what you need for that meal. From the words of the Mishnah Berurah, it seems that it is permitted even when needed for the whole day of Shabbat. Menuchat Ahavah writes that it is permitted even if you are going to eat it after an hour, and the Chazon Ovadia writes this as well. So there is the answer: Chacham Ovadia is lenient. Once you have two deviations, you do not need to do it immediately. That is what Menuchat Ahavah says too. For that Shabbat, he says.
Maran does not say here that it has to be immediate. He is saying that you have two deviations. Where is Menuchat Ahavah? Chapter 8. What is the concern about breaking the utensil? You need a new one? Breaking a utensil on Shabbat is a rabbinic prohibition. You cannot break something or break a utensil on Shabbat. But he says it is permitted because you do not intend to break it. He is telling you it is okay.
Chapter 8, subsection 3: “Hashochek pilpelin bemachteishet beShabbat, harei zeh asur min haTorah mishum tochein.” One who grinds peppercorns in a mortar on Shabbat is forbidden by Torah law because of grinding. That is the Rambam explicitly. “Ve’im oseh eizeh shinui, kegon sheshachakan bemadach shel etz, o beyad shel sakin, o bishulei eizeh kli, afilu sheshachakan betoch machteishet shelahem, harei zeh asur midivrei soferim bilvad.” If he makes some deviation—for example, grinding them with a wooden pestle, with the handle of a knife, or with the bottom of some utensil—even if he grinds them in their usual mortar, it is prohibited only by rabbinic law.
“Vechen im sheshachakan al gabei shulchan betoch ke’arah, afilu sheshachakan bemadoch hamyuchad lahem, harei zeh asur midivrei soferim. Ve’im oseh shenei shinuim gemurim, sheshachakan beyad shel sakin o bishulei eizeh kli…” It is very simple: put it on the table and take the bottom of a cup and smash it. That is two deviations. Normally, you put it in an implement. “Betoch ke’arah o al gabei shulchan, harei zeh mutar lechatchilah beShabbat.” In a bowl or on the table, it is permitted from the outset on Shabbat. “Vehу hadin shemutar leshachakan be’etzba’ot hayadayim.” The same applies if you crush them with your fingers, if you can do it that way.
“Ve’ein chilluk bazeih bein da’ato le’ochlan miyad o le’achar sha’ah.” There is no distinction here between intending to eat them immediately or after an hour, since the reason it is permitted is that you are doing it with a complete deviation and it is not at all like grinding. Once you do two deviations, it is not at all like grinding. So you have taken it out of the category of grinding; the rules of immediate use and the rest do not apply.
“Ve’im ken lo shayach lechalek keshe’oseh le’echol le’altar. Vedavka kesheta’am haheiter mishum dehavei derech achilah, yesh chilluk keshe’oseh le’echol le’altar, she’az nechshav derech achilah.” Therefore, there is no distinction when you are doing it to eat immediately. But specifically when the reason it is permitted is that it is a manner of eating, there is a distinction: if you are going to eat it immediately, it is considered a manner of eating. That is not the case here. This is not a forbidden labor.
“Kol ha’amur base’if hakodem nachon gam le’inyan shechikat shum beShabbat.” Everything said in the previous subsection also applies to crushing garlic on Shabbat. “She’al yedei shenei shinuim gemurim, dehainu keshetored bishulei…” That is what we do. How do we crush garlic on Shabbat? With the bottom of the cup, on the table. “Betoch ke’arah o al gabei hashulchan, az zeh mutar lechatchilah beShabbat. Ulam al yedei shinui echad bilvad asur.” In a bowl or on the table, it is permitted from the outset on Shabbat, but with only one deviation it is forbidden.
The same law applies to crushing nuts, almonds, and other kinds of fruit. Some permit it with only one deviation. We already saw that; they brought a couple of opinions like that. Rabbi Zalman holds that way too. Rav Pe’alim brought some opinions like that. The Baghdad group was lenient even with one deviation. “Vehasomech aleihem be’et shechikat egozim ushkedim keshesheneihem kemot shehem chayim, ein mochin beyadam. Uvechol zot min hare’ui gam bezeh yesh litro’ach la’asot shenei shinuyim.” One who relies on them when crushing nuts and almonds, when both are raw as they are, is not rebuked. Nevertheless, it is proper to make the effort to use two deviations. They are not rebuked, but you should use two. Fine.
By the way, when you are learning practical halachah, you have to tell the Rebbetzins to sit up on time. We are going to start learning Daf Yomi again on Sunday because Zevachim starts, so we want to get back into a little Gemara for the summer. Everybody bring your Zevachim: Sunday morning, page 2. But that is not going to help you with the laws of Shabbat, I hate to tell you. We are going to learn it, but if your wife is grinding pepper or garlic on Shabbat with one deviation—or not even a deviation—a garlic press is certainly forbidden, even if it is right before the meal. That is the usual way of doing it.
“Why? A garlic press?” Whoa, whoa. We just said before that if I cut something very finely—which is the usual way of grinding, to cut a vegetable finely, according to Maran—we said you could do that right before the meal. Why should a garlic press be any different? “Oh, okay. Right before the meal, maybe.” But this is not a deviation. Look at the deviations. A garlic press is clearly not a deviation; that is the usual way.
“What about the pepper?” That is the usual way too. We did not see the case of the actual item itself being used immediately. We saw fine cutting. What about doing it with a utensil? They did not permit using it in the regular way, even immediately. Fine cutting did not give you any deviation. We did not say how to do it with a deviation and immediately. We did not give you a handle or the back of a knife or anything like that for immediate use. There are two different laws here.
There are the laws of a Torah-level prohibition for peppercorns. Everyone agrees that grinding peppercorns is a Torah-level prohibition. They need two deviations. Then there is the other case of fruit. With a grinder, how are you going to get around that? It is a Torah-level prohibition. What is the Torah-level prohibition? The items are inside, and you turn it. How is that not grinding? “Peppercorns, I agree, are a Torah-level prohibition. But what if you do it immediately?” All this is discussing where you are doing it—by other things, we said that is permitted, even when it is not immediate. I do not think it is permitted to use the device even immediately, though I have not seen it yet. There are two laws here.
This is permitted even when it is not immediate. In the garlic discussion, he did not talk about immediate use; here, you do not need immediate use. That is because they are requiring a deviation. If I want to do it immediately, maybe I do not need a deviation—maybe I do not need these two deviations. With vegetables, Maran holds that immediate use is permitted. I can cut vegetables immediately: finely cut onions, Israeli salads, all of that. Even though that is grinding, I am allowed to do it immediately. Nobody said to make a deviation. Nobody said I need a deviation. I can use the knife, the way I normally cut. I can cut on a board, no problem.
“The garlic press, you just said—” What do you mean, I just said? I did not say anything; I am asking what about using this immediately—the garlic press. “Yeah, however you want to cut it.” Peppercorns are different: they are telling you that if you are not doing it immediately, you need two deviations. You are grinding. You are not allowed to grind peppercorns on Shabbat; that is a Torah-level prohibition. That is clear. Again, I do not think immediate use changes it either when you use a utensil. It has to be forbidden. I do not think it changes it. We gave that other permission for other items, but we did not give this permission here.
How come nobody is telling you? He says, “Ve’ein chiluk bechol zeh bein da’ato le’ochlam miyad o le’achar sha’ah.” There is no distinction in all this between intending to eat them immediately or after an hour. That is because you are doing it with a complete deviation and it is not at all like grinding. He is basically saying that you can do this even before the time, because it is not at all like grinding. But if it is like grinding—and it is like grinding when you are doing it without a deviation—would it be permitted immediately? You have to see. You can do it with a deviation, with your left hand. You could smash it with your left hand. Okay, there is one more here.
Didn’t we say there is no grinding with fruit? That is what we discussed. “With spices?” With spices, there is grinding. I agree that there is grinding with peppercorns according to everyone—Maran, the Rambam. I am not giving permission to use a grinder. I am not giving you permission. With the other cases, we had leniencies, but nobody is lenient about peppercorns and salt. Everyone holds that there is grinding in those cases.
Here, in note 43, he says: “Ha’chotech b’Shabbat yerakot o peirot b’sakin l’chatichot dakot b’yoter k’dei l’ochlam l’achar zman, harei zeh asur min haTorah mishum tochen.” One who cuts vegetables or fruit very finely with a knife on Shabbat in order to eat them later is forbidden by Torah law because of grinding. It can even be a Torah-level prohibition when the food is cut for later. The Aruch Hashulchan did not like that wording, “forbidden by Torah law” for later use, but let’s say it is a Torah-level prohibition.
“V’yesh omrim she’ein issur ela b’yerakot she'derech l’chatchan l’chatichot dakot m’be’od yom, aval b’yerakot u’feirot she’ein derech l’chatchan l’chatichot dakot m’be’od yom, veshem re’uyim l’ochlam l’rov bnei adam gam lifnei chitucham, mutar l’chatchan b’Shabbat l’chatichot dakot v’ein b’zeh mishum tchinah klal.” Some say the prohibition applies only to vegetables that people normally cut finely before the day. But vegetables and fruits that people do not normally cut finely beforehand, and that most people can eat even before they are cut, may be cut finely on Shabbat; there is no grinding prohibition at all.
“V’yesh omrim sheyerakot u’feirot sher’uyim le’echol k’mot shehem chayim, v’einam mechusarim shum tikun, afilu derech l’chatchan l’chatichot dakot m’be’od yom, mutar b’Shabbat l’chatchan b’sakin l’chatichot dakot.” Some say that vegetables and fruits that can be eaten raw as they are, without needing any preparation, may be cut finely with a knife on Shabbat, even if people normally cut them finely before the day. That is the Rambam, because you can eat them raw.
“V’halachah k’da’at rishonah, she’asur lachtoch b’Shabbat shum yerakot o peirot l’chatichot dakot. U’mikol makom, im da’atam le’echol miyad l’achar chituchan, mutar.” The law follows the first opinion: it is forbidden to cut any vegetables or fruit finely on Shabbat. Nevertheless, if they intend to eat it immediately after cutting it, it is permitted. That is what we saw.
“Bitnai sheyachtoch b’sakin v’lo bichli meyuchad l’chach hanikra pumpiah.” The condition is that you cut it with a knife and not with a utensil specially designed for this, called a pumpiah—the actual item itself. A utensil made for fine cutting has the status of a forbidden labor, not of eating. That is it. That is called a forbidden labor, guys.
“V’chol haheter b’zeh hu mishum d’havei derech achilah, k’shechotech b’sakin le’echol l’altar. V’gam b’borer lo hitiru ela b’yad v’lo bichli, afilu le’echol l’altar.” The whole permission here is because it is a manner of eating when you cut with a knife to eat immediately. They also permitted sorting only by hand, not with a utensil, even when eating immediately. So you have to use something like a knife. But the pumpiah—the actual item itself—is already a forbidden labor. There is a manner of eating and a manner of labor.
That is his reasoning: a utensil specially made for fine cutting has the status of a forbidden labor, not a manner of eating. Therefore, he is not letting you use the pumpiah for other things either. He is not going to let you use it for garlic; he is clearly not letting you use it.
“U’mevo’ar base’if hakodem shemutar b’Shabbat lachtoch b’sakin yerakot shonim, k’gon agvaniyot, betzalim, melafefonim, k’dei la’asot salat yerakot, bitnai sheyachtchem k’dei l’ochlam miyad l’achar gmar chituchan.” It is explained in the previous subsection that it is permitted on Shabbat to cut various vegetables with a knife, such as tomatoes, onions, and cucumbers, to make a vegetable salad, provided they cut them in order to eat them immediately after finishing cutting them.
He says “immediately.” Ben Ish Chai would say half an hour; he will tell you two hours even, Chacham Aruch Hashulchan. That is the timing. “V’chen haminhag”—that is the custom. Some say it is proper to be careful to cut them into somewhat larger pieces, which is what Chacham Ovadia said, because it is good to be stringent. “Hamachmir tavo alav berachah.” Chacham Ovadia wrote that in Halichot Olam, but according to the law, they all give you permission for immediate use.
It is permitted on Shabbat to mash avocado or potatoes with a fork or a knife in order to eat them immediately. So, gentlemen, all these permissions involve two different laws. There are the laws of deviations, which apply to peppercorns, salt, and things like that, which involve a Torah-level prohibition. Then there is the regular law of immediate use for foods—not spices and things like that. There is the law of immediate use. And even then, “Hamachmir tavo alav berachah.” If you want to be stringent, make the pieces a little bigger, but you do not have to do the whole thing.
Someone asks: “If you want to do garlic on Shabbat, do two deviations?” Use the back of the utensil on the table. “What about a fork? Does that help?” No, it does not make a difference. You do not need it. Two deviations is not grinding. Two deviations is not grinding.
“Baruch atah Hashem Eloheinu Melech ha’olam shehakol nihyah bidvaro” (Blessed are You, Hashem, our God, King of the universe, by whose word all things came to be). Amen. I don’t think that’s right. He gave us permission for it. He said, “What’s the difference if the ladies are using their…”