We’re learning a big subject here. We’re talking about the tinok (infant) who was born bein hashemashot (twilight): when do you circumcise him? The question is, we know what a tinok is and we know what a circumcision is. It’s the bein hashemashot that’s the problem.
Hacham Ben Tzion reminded us of shitat Rabbeinu Tam (the view of Rabbeinu Tam). Shitat Rabbeinu Tam is that for the first 58 and a half minutes after sunset, it’s still considered day. Let’s give a practical example. Tonight’s sunset in Brooklyn, New York, is 4:39. It’s still 4:45, so for sure, according to Rabbeinu Tam, it’s still day. Actually, it’ll be day until about 5:30. For 58 and a half minutes after sunset, it’s still day, meaning you could pray Shacharit (morning prayer). Whatever, you can pray Minchah (afternoon prayer) for sure. You could put on tefillin (phylacteries)—that’s what I meant to say. If you didn’t put on your tefillin, still, according to Rabbeinu Tam, 58 and a half minutes after sunset, it’s yom gamur (a complete day). If you didn’t count the Omer (the counting of the Omer) yet, you can still say hayom, whatever day of the Omer it is. And whatever things can be done—the berit milah (circumcision), which you only do during the day—according to Rabbeinu Tam, you can do that. Minchah? Yeah, Minchah, sure, sure. You didn’t shake the lulav (palm branch); you can still shake it, whatever day it is, even though it’s 58 and a half minutes after sunset. Unbelievable.
So he has a different way of calculating it. He says that after the 58 and a half minutes, bein hashemashot begins for 13 and a half minutes. Then you get to 72, and once you get to 72, that’s already vadai lailah (definitely night), and then it’s over.
As we said this morning, people think that opinion is some sort of a chumrah (stringency). However, it’s really not a chumrah. Boys, if you open up the Shulchan Aruch (Code of Jewish Law), let’s open up resh-samech-alef (section 261) in the Mishnah Berurah (Mishnah Berurah commentary) again to remind ourselves of what we learned. The regular six-pack? Right there, over here on the left. Either chelek gimmel (volume three), either one, resh-samech-alef. I found one more Mishnah Berurah. Resh-samech-alef? Yeah, there’s a six-pack right there. Okay, resh-samech-alef, halachah bet (law two). So he says over here, Hacham Maran: yesh omerim shetzarich lehosif mechol al hakodesh (Some say one must add from the weekday to the holy). Okay, you should add some time from chol al hakodesh. Vezman tosefet (addition) zeh hu mitechilat hashkiah, the time of this tosefet is from the beginning of shkiah, sunset: she'ein hashemesh nireit al ha'aretz (when the sun is no longer visible on the earth). We would call that when it disappears, when it’s set, ad zman bein hashemashot. So Maran talks about a time from when the sun sets until bein hashemashot. Vehazman hazeh shehu gimmel milin urvia (three and a quarter mil), and he says the amount of time is three and a quarter mil from sunset until bein hashemashot. Each mil (mile) is 18 minutes, so three and a quarter mil would be 58 and a half minutes: three times 18 plus a quarter of 18 is 58 and a half.
So if you want to make that whole time tosefet, Maran says: ratzah la'asoto kulo tosefet oseh ratzah la'asot mimenu miktzat oseh (If he wishes to make all of it an addition, he may; if he wishes to make part of it an addition, he may), uvelvad sheyosif eizeh zman sheyehe vadai yom mechol al hakodesh (Provided that he adds some time that is certainly weekday, from weekday to holy). The point is, you have to accept Shabbat a little extra at a time when it’s definitely weekday. It’s definitely weekday when it’s still day. Vadai. Veshiur zman bein hashemashot hu gimmel reviei mil (The duration of twilight is three quarters of a mil). And then bein hashemashot follows, which is three quarters of a— So you see Maran over here beferush, clearly setting it up like Rabbeinu Tam. Maran holds like Rabbeinu Tam.
By the way, the Mishnah Berurah says about that: hu da'at Rabbeinu Tam vesiato (This is the view of Rabbeinu Tam and his colleagues), usvira lehu deshtei shkiot hen (They hold that there are two sunsets). There are two different shkiot (sunsets), called shkiah rishonah (beginning of sunset) and shkiah acharonah (last sunset). Mitechilah nichset hachamah me'eineinu—the sun goes down, it’s covered—and veshoka'at vehu nikra techilat shkiah (beginning of sunset): the sun sets, and that is called the beginning of sunset. It lasts gimmel milin urvia mil—three and a quarter mil—and it is still day. Ume'az vehalah matchilah shkiah sheniyah, she'az matchilah lishkoa or legamrei, vehu nikra sof hasheki'ah: then the second sunset begins, when it starts to set completely, and that is called the end of sunset. Its duration is gimel riv'ei mil, another 13 and a half minutes. So the whole process would be four mil. From beginning to end, it’s four mil: three and a quarter, and then three and three quarters.
That’s Maran, by the way. Fifteen and three quarters. According to Maran, you could—you don’t have to—you can drive a car after sheki'ah. That’s correct. According to Maran, technically, you could drive a car half an hour after sunset on Friday afternoon.
Does it make a difference what part of the world you’re in, or is this just stam, general? Maran did not tell us it was only for Tzfat (Safed), where he was. It sounds like—and this is a famous machloket (dispute)—where Rabbeinu Tam was, whether he’s talking about Europe or everywhere, or whether it’s universal. For Maran, it sounds like it’s everywhere; he doesn’t make a distinction. So the Bi'ur Halachah (Bi'ur Halachah commentary) goes through all the shitot (views). Anyway, it’s good to know that Maran posek, rules, like Rabbeinu Tam.
Again, when we say Motza'ei Shabbat (the conclusion of Shabbat), it’s a chumrah to follow Rabbeinu Tam. Don’t fall into that trap so much. A chumrah? I mean, Maran posek like Rabbeinu Tam. Where did we get it from? Again, you might want to follow the minhag (custom), perhaps, of the Geonim (the early rabbinic authorities), but Maran is Maran. We know Maran wouldn’t want to go against—Absolutely. Absolutely. My father never did that. Absolutely. But as I said, I never—I didn’t say that. No, no, I got it.
But as I said this morning, if you’re interested in adding to Shabbat, it would always be better to add on the back end. Friday is too—Motza'ei Shabbat. Sure, Motza'ei Shabbat. Hey, don’t hit me. Yeah, at the beginning, it’s a chumrah that’s just really a chumrah. It’s really not so significant. But on the back end, 10 more minutes of Shabbat is 10 more minutes less of sheki'ah, according to Rabbeinu Tam, whereas 10 minutes on the way in—More than 10.
Rabbi, do we have any books from Chalab about what they did? Did the 40 minutes start there? No, it was probably in Chalab. Listen, they’re in the Middle East. It was probably less than 40 minutes. It was probably—Oh, they have 72. It was probably 35 minutes. We don’t know if they did 72 there. We don’t know if they did 72 in Chalab. In our search now that we’re doing the sugya (Talmudic discussion) of bein hashemashot, maybe it’ll come up.
Anyway, he says, aval leda'at haGeonim, and that’s what this big Bi'ur Halachah brings over here: leika ela sheki'ah achat bilvad (There is only one sunset). There’s one sheki'ah, called sunset, and right after sunset begins 13 and a half minutes called bein hashemashot, and then have a good day. Remember the book you mentioned that Rabbi Hedaya or Rabbi Dabah made about berit milah? He probably discusses this. Machshirei Milah. It’s probably in that sefer (book). Chaimie, you want to go up there on the shelf? It’s the little red book, Machshirei Milah. Maybe in the section on bein hashemashot it’ll tell you how they dealt with it. Third place there.
So now we get to our story. The question is, how are we going to judge bein hashemashot? Are we going to judge bein hashemashot according to Rabbeinu Tam’s understanding of it, or according to the Geonim’s understanding of it?
Vehineh benidon didan, gabei tinok shenolad bein hashemashot, yesh soverim she'im nolad ad 13 vachetzi dakot min hasheki'ah, chashiv ke'ilu nolad bayom, venimol lishmonah. If they hold that up to 13 and a half minutes after sunset, he’s considered to have been born during the day, then he is circumcised on the eighth day. They combine the view of Rabbeinu Tam, vehavei leih safek sefeka (double doubt). Let’s say a child was born in the first 13 and a half minutes after sheki'ah. It’s still day for Rabbeinu Tam, so we’ll make a safek sefeka and say: safek shema halachah keRabbeinu Tam, vehavei vadai yom. According to Rabbeinu Tam, 13 and a half minutes after sunset, it’s definitely day. Another 40 minutes—it’s still day. Ve'afilu timtzei lomar dehalachah kaGeonim, even if you conclude that the halachah is according to the Geonim and that it’s bein hashemashot, harei bein hashemashot hu safek yom, and maybe it’s day even according to the Geonim. Lefichach, nimol lishmonah, vehavei kula. The leniency is as follows.
She'im nolad beMotza'ei Shabbat toch 13 vachetzi dakot lasheki'ah: say he was born on Shabbat, within 13 and a half minutes after sheki'ah; yimol beShabbat. You do the same safek sefeka. But after 13 and a half minutes, they have only one safek. Then you’ll do it on the ninth or tenth day. If he was born on Shabbat, you move it to Sunday; if he was born on Friday, you move it to Sunday.
So that’s one way of looking at it: you make a safek sefeka if the child is born within 13 and a half minutes. You have the safek sefeka? Although this morning we learned that it could be one safek. But Hacham Ben Tzion brings that side down. Again, bein hashemashot: 13 and a half minutes. If a child is born eight minutes after sunset on Friday night, we say, shema halachah keRabbeinu Tam, ve'im halachah keRabbeinu Tam, zeh vadai yom. If it’s definitely day, that means he was born on Friday. Ve'afilu im timtzi lomar that it’s bein hashemashot according to the Geonim, safek bein hashemashot is yom. So that’s also day. Born on Friday, circumcision on Friday.
The leniency would apply if the same thing happened on Motza'ei Shabbat, on the way out, and the child was born Saturday night, eight minutes after sunset. Eight minutes according to Rabbeinu Tam is still day, and according to the Geonim it might be day: double doubt, circumcision on Shabbat. That’s one mahalach (approach).
But veyesh ha'omrim she'im nolad achar 13 vachetzi dakot lashkiah, havei lailah vadai keshitat haGeonim. Some say that after 13 and a half minutes, it’s lailah vadai (definitely night), according to the Geonim. Lefichach afilu nolad be'erev Shabbat bazman hanal, yimol beShabbat velo chaishinan leRabbeinu Tam: even if he was born Friday evening at that time, circumcise him on Shabbat, and we don’t take Rabbeinu Tam into account, dela chedai levatel mitzvat milah bashmini mishum Rabbeinu Tam. We’re not going to go according to Rabbeinu Tam for a berit milah at its proper time according to the Geonim. What’s that? According to the Geonim. Vezehu zeh—that’s the magic number, 13 and a half minutes. Veyesh hasoverim: that is already the third view.
By the way, Hacham Ben Tzion is going to say that we hold like none of these. Just for the record, he’s going to conclude that we don’t do any of this.
Veyesh hasoverim debein im nolad toch 13 vachetzi dakot uvein im nolad achar kach ad 72 dakot havei safek. Until 72 minutes it’s a safek. Dechaishinan leRabbeinu Tam uleGeonim veyimol leteshi'i uvelil Shabbat la'asiri. That means the only time they’re going to give a berit milah on Shabbat is if he was born Friday night, 72 minutes after sunset, because they’re going to be concerned for Rabbeinu Tam. If you’re concerned for Rabbeinu Tam, you have to wait: 58 minutes is day. So the only time you’ll give a milah on Shabbat is if he was really born Friday night, 72 minutes after sunset. The same applies Saturday night, 72 minutes after sunset. They would hold off until Sunday. Right, dechaishinan leRabbeinu Tam uleGeonim. No, Friday, because it’s still day. Well, we’re concerned for Rabbeinu Tam and the Geonim; we’re concerned for both. They’re playing it safe, but they’re putting Rabbeinu Tam in the picture. If you’re concerned for both, you have to wait until Sunday, because according to Rabbeinu Tam it’s day, and according to the Geonim it’s night. We don’t know which day it is, so we push it to Sunday.
Veyimol leteshi'i, uvelil Shabbat la'asiri, ve'ein nimol beShabbat ela im ken nolad belil Shabbat achar 72 dakot lashkiah. That’s according to everybody.
Ulam haminhag dela kechada mehani shitata. The custom is like none of what we just said. Exactly, D: none of the above. Ela, look what he says: mishkiah ad 27 dakot. The magic number is 27 minutes. Up to 27 it’s a safek, and veyimol leteshi'i vela'asiri: then you either go to the ninth or the tenth day. Ve'achar 27 dakot havei lailah vadai. Where did they get 27 from? That’s the question. Where did they get it? One and a half mil? Thirteen and a half times two? Twenty-seven letters in the Hebrew alphabet? Where did they get 27 from? They took a poll!
Venir'eh la'aniyut da'ati leyashev haminhag, mishum dela chaishinan leRabbeinu Tam. First of all, Rabbeinu Tam—with all due respect—keivan shehaGeonim lo savira lehu kavateih. We follow, as Ikey said, the minhag of the Geonim. Gadol haminhag (Great is the custom). Venir'eh sheken hi gam da'at haRambam (Maimonides), sheharei katav beHilchot Shabbat.
What does the Rambam (Maimonides) write in Shabbat? This morning I put the Rambam with Rabbeinu Tam; he’s going to put him with the Geonim. No, because there are many Rambams. Hilchot Shabbat (Laws of Shabbat), perek heh halachah dalet (chapter five, law four): mishetishka hachamah, from sunset, ad sheyera'u sheloshah chochavim beinoniyim, until three medium stars appear, hu hazman hanikra bein hashemashot bechol makom. That is the time called bein hashemashot everywhere.
Okay, I don’t see anything from that yet. Veha'oseh melachah bein hashemashot be'erev Shabbat uvimotza'ei Shabbat beshogeg, chayav chatat (liable for a sin offering). Vechochavim ellu, lo gedolim hanir'im bayom, ella beinoniyim. Umisheyera'u sheloshah chochavim ellu beinoniyim, harei zeh lailah vadai (definitely night).
So what do you see from this Rambam? Umevo'ar bidvarav, demisheyetzu gimmel chochavim beinoniyim, harei zeh lailah vadai. No problem. Umutar ba'asiyat melachah bemotza'ei Shabbat. If he held like Rabbeinu Tam, that would mean what? The three medium stars appear 72 minutes later. He would have had to explain and say that you wait four mil. Shouldn’t he say, from sunset, wait four mil until those stars come out? Sheharei efshar lit'ot bidvarav velomar degimmel chochavim dekamar, hainu keshitat haGeonim, dehainu yud-gimmel vachetzi dakot mishki'ah. The fact that the Rambam didn’t tell us to wait four mil is based on what he didn’t say. There are two views: the Geonim say it’s three quarters of a mil after sunset, and Rabbeinu Tam holds it’s four mil after sunset. If the Rambam just tells me to wait until three medium stars come out after sunset for Shabbat to be over, and doesn’t tell me to wait four mil, that’s because he doesn’t hold that you have to wait 72 minutes. De'ika bazeh takalah gedolah, mechallel Shabbat (desecrates Shabbat)! If the Rambam held that it’s four mil and didn’t tell you that, you would desecrate Shabbat. Ella vadai lo savir leh keRabbeinu Tam.
Well, that’s no proof. Okay, because they didn’t hear the same language. Whatever. I’m just saying, if you wanted to argue, I could argue against that. It doesn’t say beferush; it doesn’t explicitly reject the Rambam.
Ve'od, de'af mi shenoheg keRabbeinu Tam, hainu davka lechumra velo lekula (stringently, not leniently). That’s also true. Even those who follow Rabbeinu Tam, lema'aseh, in practice, follow Rabbeinu Tam only stringently, not leniently. Are we going to say you can drive a car until 58 and a half minutes after sunset? We know we take Rabbeinu Tam only on the stringent side.
Lefichach, im nolad toch yud-gimmel vachetzi dakot, ein lomar kisevara rishonah uletzaref shitat Rabbeinu Tam denachshivo kenolad bayom, ulehakel bemi shenolad bemotza'ei Shabbat, lemolo beShabbat. Remember, the first position wanted to include Rabbeinu Tam in the calculation, so that if the child was born on Motza'ei Shabbat within 13 and a half minutes, we would say the doubt is whether the halachah follows Rabbeinu Tam, and therefore it’s day, so he was born on Shabbat. And even if you want to say like the Geonim, that it’s bein hashemashot, a doubt about bein hashemashot is a doubt about whether it’s day. So it would still be Shabbat. Mazal tov! We’re not going to use Rabbeinu Tam as a leniency to make a berit on Shabbat. Finished. That’s Hacham Ben Tzion’s principle: first, the Rambam does not hold of Rabbeinu Tam; and whenever we do take Rabbeinu Tam, it’s only stringently, not as a leniency. So scratch the option of using a safek sefeka on the way in.
Vegam ein lomar kisevara sheniyah. What was the second position? If he was born after yud-gimmel vachetzi dakot, after 13 and a half minutes, and you follow the Geonim directly, 13 and a half minutes is bein hashemashot and after that it’s vadai lailah. He says, ulehakel bemi shenolad be'erev Shabbat achar yud-gimmel vachetzi dakot, lemolo, ella yimol beyom rishon misafek. The reason is that until kaf-zayin dakot lashki'ah, 27 minutes after sunset, which is what we see in Eretz Yisrael (Land of Israel), there’s room to doubt whether it’s bein hashemashot. Deharei anu ro'im bachush: we can see it. From sunset until the stars come out is approximately 25 to 28 minutes. Go stand on the roof of Porat Yosef and see it. Start your stopwatch from sheki'ah until you see stars, and on a given night it will be between 25 and 28 minutes. Another 30 minutes in the twilight? Velo yud-gimmel vachetzi dakot. It’s not 13 and a half minutes. That’s where it fluctuates. He says it’s not 13 and a half minutes, as the Gemara says.
Did Hacham Ovadia know that? Before we get to Hacham Ovadia—no, we’ll get to him in a second. Before the 13 and a half minutes—But the Gemara says 13 and a half minutes. It was in Bavel, I don’t know where; it was on the rooftops of Porat Yosef or it was still in Bavel.
Lefichach, tzarich le... You have to make a decision: o shehashkiah shelanu nechonah vetzet hakochavim eino nachon, o lehefech shetzet hakochavim hu nachon vehashkiah eina nechonah. Something is wrong here: either our sheki'ah is wrong or our tzet is wrong, because it doesn’t work out according to the Gemara. Thirteen and a half minutes from our sheki'ah doesn’t work.
Veyeish lehistapek bizmanenu mah hi hashkiah ha'amurah baGemara. What is sheki'ah, by the way? What would the Gemara mean by sheki'ah? We always assume sheki'ah is when the ball—the sun—goes down. Is it besha'ah shegalgal chamah shoke'a vene'elam me'einenu, when the sun drops under the horizon and its upper edge sinks below it, and we call that sunset? Or is it kol zeman sheha'admumit nireit bama'arav adayin yom hu: as long as the rays are still visible in the west, is it still day? Verak kesheha'admumit ta'aleh lema'alah hu zeman hashkiah. Once the red disappears and goes up, then that’s already sheki'ah.
Lachen afilu nolad achar 13 vachetzi dakot min hashkiah beleil Shabbat ein lemolo beShabbat. Even if he was born after 13 and a half minutes from sunset on Friday night, you don’t circumcise him on Shabbat. Va'afilu nolad achar 18 o 24 dakot, havei safek ad 27 dakot. Even if he was born after 18 or 24 minutes, it’s a doubt up to 27 minutes, deyitachen detzet hakochavim shelanu hu ha'emet. Maybe the time when our stars come out is the right time, verak az hu lailah bevada'i. Only then is it definitely night. Verak im nolad achar 27 dakot yimolo beShabbat, de'atah hu lailah bevada'i: only if he was born after 27 minutes do you circumcise him on Shabbat, because then it is definitely night and the doubt has left us. After 27 minutes, there’s no more red; the stars are out.
Vegam kisvara shelishit dechaishinan leRabbeinu Tam lo avdinan. We don’t follow the third position, which is to be concerned for Rabbeinu Tam. We don’t even take Rabbeinu Tam into account stringently. To be so stringent like Rabbeinu Tam that you don’t do a milah until it’s 72 minutes after sunset—that much we’re not going to do, because we take Rabbeinu Tam only stringently. To use Rabbeinu Tam to do a milah on Friday until that time isn’t a chumrah; that’s a leniency. So we don’t take Rabbeinu Tam into account, even stringently. That’s why he came out with 27 minutes: he’s saying that’s the metzi'ut, the reality.
I saw a book here on my phone. Let me look in my office; I have a book. The author went—not on this—to show that Rabbeinu Tam is right. He went to the roof of one of the buildings in Yerushalayim and took pictures of the sky at different intervals. Let’s see if I can send it to you. Tahar Yoma, on the subject of bein hashemashot. At the end of the book he has pictures. Can I send this to the group? Who do I send it to? We’ll add you, Rabbi, whenever you’re ready. The rabbi’s not a member of the group. He doesn’t belong to any group. Do I have to share, or can I just tap on Victor's salmon? Done. What did you get? The pictures of the sun? You got the whole book? Beauty!
Go to the end of the book. Let me share it with the group, though. Mistama, I thought it was interesting that a guy took the time to do this little experiment. This is Jerusalem, on a rooftop that’s not affected by streetlights, so you can get a good view. It’s at the end of the book, on daf yud-tet (page 19). It’s a small book, a tiny book. You see it? Look at 32 minutes after sheki'ah, what the sun looks like. At 32 minutes, you still see light. Then 27 is the one before it. Then you have 37, and it’s still light. At 42, you still see light. What is that, a star? Whatever that is, it’s light. Then 47. At 47 it’s dark, but look, there’s still a light there. You do see a ray of light there at 47. And then you get 52. Still, right? You still have something going on over there, a little bit on the bottom. You can’t deny the picture.
When you did the sugya, did you—Rabbi Akiva Yosef was here, and he also said he spoke to Rav Heinemann. He said Rav Yosef went to Camp Morris and sat outside in the woods, with no light, nothing. What was he supposed to do? Look at the sky to see when the stars come out. He says before 55 minutes, you don’t see any stars. Before 55 minutes? Yeah. There you go. This was upstate New York, pitch black. He did an experiment upstate New York, and said that before 55 minutes he didn’t see any stars either. You don’t need—you need beinonim stars. What, where? Any stars. Where? Beinonim. Okay, he didn’t see anything.
Again, to say Rabbeinu Tam was not so far-fetched even in Eretz Yisrael. At 57 minutes there’s still a ray. So according to Rabbeinu Tam, as long as you have that little light on the bottom of the horizon, it’s day. That’s called day. That’s the picture at 58 and a half minutes, basically. Another minute or—Not when—what is the—The machloket is what is the—It’s a machloket b'metzi'ut, a dispute about the reality, exactly. Each one looked at it and asked whether it was dark enough to call it night. No, each one had their own understanding of what’s considered—Yeah, they’re reconciling different Gemarot. One says four, one says three and a quarter mil. We have a machloket on what the definition is of night. Everybody agrees sheki'ah, everybody agrees tzet hakochavim. The question is what has to happen to activate a sheki'ah and what has to happen to activate a tzet. One says four, one says three and a quarter mil. They say, “Four is the whole process; three and a quarter is the shkiah rishonah.” That’s the way Tosafot (Tosafot commentary) balances it.
Anyway, he says: od nireh l'aniyut da'ati d'ikar hata'am d'lo metzarfinan shitat Rabbeinu Tam l'safek sefeika l'hakel b'issur Shabbat toch sheloshah asar umektzah d'kodem shekiah, mishum d'lo avdinan shum safek sefeika b'issur Shabbat bein hashemashot. He’s saying the reason we don’t include the view of Rabbeinu Tam in the double doubt is that we never use a double doubt in the prohibition of Shabbat during bein hashemashot. Teda, d'ha b'lo d'Rabbeinu Tam nami, forget about Rabbeinu Tam, put him to the side, ika safek sefeika velo avdinan leh.
What is the safek sefeika? You can make one for every bein hashemashot: d'hu safek im halachah k'Rabbi Yose d'adayin yom hu. There’s Rabbi Yose in the Gemara. Rabbi Yose says that bein hashemashot happens k'heref ayin, right before the stars come out. In the 13 and a half minutes, according to Rabbi Yose, it’s day. So why didn’t they say every time there’s a bein hashemashot, you make a safek sefeika? The doubt is whether the halachah is like Rabbi Yose and it’s day; and even if you want to say it’s not like Rabbi Yose, maybe bein hashemashot is also day.
Ve'afilu timtzei lomar d'halachah k'Rabbi Yehudah d'havei bein hashemashot, harei bein hashemashot gufeih havei safek yom, ve'ein lomar d'havei safek sefeika mishem echad. Maybe you’ll tell me, as we said this morning, that it’s a shem echad—it’s the same doubt. D'safek b'machloket tanna'im b'tzeruf safek b'metzi'ut chashiv shapir safek sefeika. You’re saying it’s not a shem echad: I’m taking Rabbi Yose, which is one view, and I’m taking the reality. So that’s not a shem echad. You’re right, I’m coming to the same conclusion—day, day—but from two different angles. Here I’m taking it from the view of Rabbi Yose, and here I’m taking it from the reality. When I arrive at the same result by two different paths, that’s not called a safek sefeika mishem echad.
V'af d'afilu mishem echad, who cares? Anyone who studies the later Sephardic poskim, the halachic authorities, siman kuf yud in Yoreh De'ah (Yoreh De'ah section), will see that they allowed a double doubt like this, and we don’t do it. For whatever reason, we don’t say safek sefeika in bein hashemashot, so we don’t include Rabbeinu Tam either.
Why don’t we say safek sefeika in bein hashemashot? V'nireh li hata'am d'lo metzarfinan safek sefeika b'chehai gavna, sheharei haRambam b'hilchot Kiddush HaChodesh (sanctification of the new month) katav: ra'uhu Beit Din atzmam et hayare'ach b'sof yom tish'ah v'esrim. The Beit Din themselves, they don’t need edim (witnesses), saw the moon at the end of the 29th day. Im adayin lo yatza kochav leil sheloshim, if the star for the night of the 30th had not yet come out, Beit Din omrim mekudash (sanctified). They can still say “mekudash” as long as it’s still day. The Beit Din can only say “mekudash” during the day. They caught it while it was still day.
Ve'im ra'uhu b'leil sheloshim achar sheyatz'u shenei chochavim, if they saw it on the night of the 30th after two stars had come out, l'machar moshivim shenei dayanin, the next day they seat two judges, etzel echad mehem v'ya'idu hashnayim bifnei sheloshah. The two judges who saw it testify in front of one, veya'idu hashnayim bifnei hasheloshah, and the three sanctify it. That’s the end of his words. Maharal ben Chaviv raised several kushyot (difficulties) there.
First, dekamar de'im adayin lo yatza chochav havei yom. The Rambam says that as long as one star has not come out, he calls it day. Mashma, ha yatza chochav echad havei bein hashemashot: it sounds like once one star comes out, you’re already in bein hashemashot. But in the Gemara we say that one star means it’s day. The Gemara clearly holds that one star is for sure still day. So why did the Rambam say the cutoff is when one star comes out? Even if one star came out, according to the Gemara you’re still in the daytime.
Ve'od, demereisha mashma im yatza chochav echad havei bein hashemashot, therefore you have to do it tomorrow, uveseifa ka'amar de'im ra'u achar sheyatz'u shenei chochavim yitkadesh lemachar. The next time he says, “But if two stars came out,” I thought you just said the cutoff was one star. Make up your mind: is it one star or two stars? Mashma de'im yatza rak chochav echad havei yom, veyikadshuha atah. It sounds like if only one star came out, it’s day, and they should sanctify it then. Ve'od, dehacha toleh yedi'at hayom uvein hashemashot bechochavim. Here it sounds like everything depends on the stars. If one star hasn’t come out, it’s day, even if the sun has already set. But in Hilchot Shabbat he wrote that from sunset onward it’s bein hashemashot, and he didn’t mention stars. It sounds there like it’s bein hashemashot even if one star hasn’t come out yet. In Hilchot Kiddush HaChodesh, the stars seem to determine bein hashemashot; in Hilchot Shabbat, sunset seems to determine it. So he’s going back and forth!
Venir'eh le'aniyut da'ati, the beautiful answer: the Rambam holds that what the Gemara in Shabbat ruled was like Rabbi Yehudah is for Shabbat. For Shabbat, we hold like Rabbi Yehudah: right after sheki'ah, you have bein hashemashot. But for terumah (priestly offering), he holds like Rabbi Yose, unlike Rashi’s explanation that the halachah is uncertain. Rashi explains that we don’t know whom to follow: Rabbi Yehudah or Rabbi Yose. The Gemara says we follow Rabbi Yehudah regarding Shabbat and Rabbi Yose regarding terumah. Rashi says ve'azlinan hacha lechumra vehacha lechumra: regarding Shabbat we follow Rabbi Yehudah stringently, and regarding terumah we follow Rabbi Yose stringently. That’s how Rashi learned it.
Ela deha'emet ha'ikar hahalachah keRabbi Yose. Oh! The Rambam said, “No, no, no, the halachah is like Rabbi Yose.” Dekayma lan bechol makom: when there’s a dispute in Shas (the Talmud) between Rabbi Yehudah and Rabbi Yose, the halachah is like Rabbi Yose. Why? The Gemara says ta'amo venimuko imo. Rabbi Yose usually gives good reasons, so we accept his reasons over Rabbi Yehudah’s. Ela sheChazal (the Sages) hechemiru bedavar hamasur lakol: but the Sages were stringent in a matter that is entrusted to everyone. Dechashshu lahamon am: they were concerned about the people. If the Beit Din can be trusted, as you’ll see in a moment, in a matter of controlling kiddush hachodesh, we can give them the law because we know it won’t get out of hand. But Shabbat is something every Jew deals with—when Shabbat starts and when it ends—and people can start making their own calculations, so we have to be stringent. Ulefikach pasku lehachmir keRabbi Yehudah le'inyan Shabbat: from sunset—I don’t care about stars or anything—sunset means bein hashemashot. Simple.
Really, the halachah is like Rabbi Yose even on Shabbat, but we follow the stringency? That’s right. You thought you had to start looking at stars. What do people know about stars? Sunset, rabbotai: bein hashemashot. Have a good day. Aval le'inyan kiddush hachodesh, she'ein masur lakol: who does kiddush hachodesh? The Beit Din. Oukmei adina keRabbi Yose: they followed Rabbi Yose for the Beit Din, deldidei chochav echad yom. For him, one star is still day, even after sheki'ah. Here you go: even after sunset, it’s still day. Shmuel’s statement in the Gemara that one star means day is according to Rabbi Yose, because the halachah is like him. With two stars, according to Rabbi Yose, it’s bein hashemashot. Right before the third star comes out, bein hashemashot lasts k'heref ayin. It’s an unbelievable yishuv, resolution, of the Rambam. In kiddush hachodesh, which is entrusted to the Beit Din, we gave them the law of Rabbi Yose. Therefore, he counts one star, two stars, and all of that. With three stars it’s night. Utzarich lomar demin chochav sheni lashlishi is k'heref ayin. That’s the k'heref ayin he was talking about.
Uvazeh nityashvah kushya acharonah sheheivi le'eil beshem Maharal ben Chaviv. The last difficulty he brought in the name of Maharal ben Chaviv is resolved this way. Umah shehikshah hacha mididei adidei nami yesh leyashev: what he asked about the Rambam contradicting himself can also be resolved. De'olam chochav echad yom, ela de'af al pi chein lo yekadshuhu Beit Din hayom, deshema ad sheyekadshuhu yehei lailah velav adaiteih. One star is always day, but the Beit Din won’t sanctify it that day, because by the time they do so, it may be night and they won’t know. Lefichach hinichuhu lemachar. That’s why they left it until the next day.
Which means, why did he say they can sanctify the new month until one star comes out? If you hold like Rabbi Yose, even after one star comes out, one star is still day. You have to say they were concerned that by the time the Beit Din sat down, the one star would pass and they would miss the time. That’s why they gave the one-star rule. Deshema ad sheyekadshuhu yiheyeh lailah velav adaiteih, lefichach hinichuhu lemachar. It was a hedge.
Okay. Because it comes out quickly. Umihu, I guess they can’t just do it on an F train, saying, “Mekudash, mekudash, mekudash.” They have to sit down, wash their hands, leshem yichud, and do the other things, Patach Eliyahu. Umihu, Vihi no'am, Hamalach hago'el, Baruch. It goes back and forth on me, okay. Beautiful. Hayotze midvareinu. What a piece from Hacham Ben Tzion.
De'af al gav de'ikar dina keRabbi Yose, mikol makom chasheshu le'inyan Shabbat leRabbi Yehudah, vehu hadin gabei milah beShabbat. Even though the essential ruling is like Rabbi Yose, for Shabbat they were concerned for Rabbi Yehudah, and the same applies to circumcision on Shabbat. De'af al gav denolad bemotza'ei Shabbat toch 13 dakot vechetzi. Now you can start making a safek sefeika. The doubt is Rabbi Yose. For Shabbat, we don’t follow Rabbi Yose. Put Rabbi Yose aside. Therefore, you can’t make a safek sefeika. Hovei omer, ulahalachah adayin yom, umikol makom hechmiru keRabbi Yehudah lehachshivo kesafek, velo shayach letzaref shitat Rabbi Yose lesafek sefeika, deChazal hem chasheshu leRabbi Yehudah. Even though the halachah is like Rabbi Yose, for Shabbat the Sages were concerned for Rabbi Yehudah.
Ve'im ken keRabbi Yose, gabei Shabbat, lo avdinan mulo beyom Shabbat, umikol sheken she'ein lanu letzaref shitat Rabbeinu Tam, delit hilcheta kevateih, la'asot milah beShabbat. If we’re not going to use Rabbi Yose, whose halachah it is, to combine views and make a milah on Shabbat, certainly we’re not going to combine the view of Rabbeinu Tam, whose halachah it is not, to make a milah on Shabbat. Rabbi Yose, hahalachah kemoto, and we say, “You’re out.” Why? On Shabbat, we’re stringent. Are you going to include Rabbeinu Tam, whose halachah it is not, to make a milah on Shabbat? Ben Tzion. Unbelievable, Hacham Ben Tzion.
Oh, so that’s what he holds. Now we get to the fourth question. What about Hacham Ovadia? What happened? There are no answers here? What does he hold? Twenty-seven minutes. They just argued about those seven minutes. He can make the same distinction just for Friday, Shabbat into the 27 minutes. For Hacham Ben Tzion it’s very simple. When they tell you—That’s in Israel, exactly. You have to see what about in America. But 6:00 is sunset. One hundred percent. What time was he born? 6:25. Twenty-five, circumcision on Sunday. 6:27? After 6:25, it’s on Sunday. Yes. 6:20? So no. 6:28, no; 6:27 is Shabbat. Before 6:27? Before 6:27, Sunday. Right, exactly. Twenty-seven minutes. That’s Hacham Ben Tzion’s point. He says, “I looked at the sky, and the sky isn’t dark until 27 minutes. That’s what it is. Don’t ask me about 13 and a half minutes; that’s somewhere else. In Israel, it’s not like that. It’s 27 minutes. That’s the reality. That’s it.”
Now open up a Hacham—let’s see how the Hacham permits a milah. Bring Hacham Ovadia, Chazon Ovadia, Shabbat alef. So Friday bein hashemashot was in the 27 minutes? That’s right. Milah beShabbat? No, Yom Rishon (Sunday). Yom Rishon, that’s bein hashemashot. So 5:59 is Friday milah, 5:28 is Saturday milah, and 5:25—6 is Sunday. That’s right. Okay, now let’s see Hacham Ovadia. If you’re slicing minutes, you have to know where you are. Exactly. In each place it’s different.
Hineh. Zeman bein hashemashot miyad sheshak'ah chamah be'erev Shabbat venichsetah hashemesh me'eineinu, matchil bein hashemashot. Therefore, you have to stop doing melachah (prohibited labor) immediately. Vezeman bein hashemashot shelosh esreh dakot vechetzi. Regarding a tinok born Friday evening after sunset, yesh machmirin she'ein lemulo beyom Rishon ela im nolad ke'esrim dakot achar hashki'ah. Some are stringent and don’t circumcise him on Sunday unless he was born 20 minutes after sunset. Twenty, twenty. It should be 13 and a half; he just said 13 and a half. Why 20? Veha miha yimulu beShabbat. Where did he get 20? Where did he get 20? Thirteen, 27, 20.
Okay, he’s talking about Or HaChaim ben Attar. He has a whole discussion here with Hacham Mashash. You need a minyan for the two. I said, “Wait a little; I’ll continue.”
Mihu be'inyan milah yesh la'asot keminhag haGeonim. Even though at tzeit we follow Rabbeinu Tam stringently, regarding a milah and a tinok born Friday evening, ke'esrim dakot achar sheki'ah nechshav lailah vadai venimol beShabbat: if he was born 20 minutes after sunset, it is considered definitely night, and he is circumcised on Shabbat, since the milah is in its proper time and overrides Shabbat. If he was born before that, the milah is postponed until Sunday. Ve'af al pi sheMaran pasak she'achar sheloshet riv'ei mil hu lailah, ulefi cheshbon shehamil yud-chet dakot yotzei shehu yud-gimmel dakot vechetzi. Although Maran ruled that after three quarters of a mil it is night, and by the calculation that a mil is 18 minutes, that comes out to 13 and a half minutes.
Where did 20 come from? Mikol makom yesh lanu lachush lesivrat haRambam: we have to take into account the Rambam’s view that a mil is 24 minutes. If you hold that a mil is 24 minutes, then three quarters of 24 is 18. It’s a dispute about what the length of a mil is.
Vegam yesh lachush lesivrat Rebbi Yose shebein hashemashot shelo kechatzi dakah achar bein hashemashot shel Rabbi Yehudah. So we should add another minute. It’s a minute later, which brings it to 19 minutes, veshema lo daiku kol kach. Maybe the people at the hospital weren’t—Exactly. Add another minute for mistakes; the clock isn’t always running. Put it in there! It’s 18, three quarters of 24. Add a minute for Rabbi Yose, because it’s a minute later, so it comes out to 19. Then the watch isn’t always exact—not an atomic clock—so 20. Velachen amadnu chaf dakot. That’s why we said 20 minutes.
Vechen yotzei bazeh katav besefer Taharat HaMayim bechelek Kehunah, Yismach Levav. Umah shekatav bazeh yesh lehashiv harbeh al devarav, velachen mah shesiyem shenolad beshloshet riv'ei sha'ah... ein hadin oto, ein lachush ela shenei shelishei sha'ah letata. One rabbi said shenei shelishei sha'ah, two-thirds of an hour—that’s 40 minutes? He says, “No, we don’t follow that.” Ela im nolad achar shelish sha'ah mehasheki'ah, then with 20 minutes, circumcise him on Shabbat, kemo shehe'eleiti mipi sofrim usefarim, Shut Yabi'a Omer chelek yud, kvar he'erachti bazeh beYabi'a Omer chelek zayin. Finished. It’s a seven-minute difference. A big difference, by the way. Seven minutes in labor is a big difference. So now we at least have the views: Hacham Ben Tzion is 27 minutes, and Hacham Ovadia is 20.
The question is, what about America? Let’s see Chalab first. Din... din dalet. Okay, chabibi. Din dalet... about bein hashemashot, ya chabibi. Let’s see how you do this. Halachah yud-tet? Maybe it’s halachah yud-tet. The first thing he says over here is—it doesn’t tell me what it was there, so let’s see chaf. Chaf, chaf-alef, chaf-bet, chaf-gimmel, chaf-dalet, chaf-heh. Nothing. No, he doesn’t give me the minutes here. He doesn’t tell you the minutes. He just tells you this star, that star.
Listen, Chalab is not that far from Eretz Yisrael, so it’s going to be the same. In Chalab they ended Shabbat 35 minutes after sunset; they ended Shabbat early. The sun gets dark really quickly over there. It doesn’t get dark quickly over here, by the way. Are you going to tell me that a child born after 20 minutes in New York, where the sun is still bright, especially in the summer, is already night? I know, I know. I’m trying to understand it. The reality: 20 minutes in Eretz Yisrael, okay, it goes down quickly. Pictures. Yes, but at least you see some darkness. It doesn’t look anything like that in America. Twenty minutes after, in the summer, it’s regular light outside; it’s still daylight. That’s already night? This is a great review. Okay, let’s go. Is this the Ben Ish Chai book? It’s just bein hashemashot—it’s the hakdamah, introduction, to bein hashemashot.
Rabbotai, are you ready? Se'if alef. Listen. He doesn’t talk about Meva, but he goes into all the shitot. Let’s learn it. We’ll learn it. Ten lo achshav beintayim. Introduction. Okay, let’s go. It’s these guys. Page one.
Bemasechet Shabbat amru shebein hashemashot yesh bo safek im hu min hayom o min halaylah, o shekulo min hayom o shekulo min halaylah. We don’t know whether bein hashemashot belongs to the day or to the night, or whether all of it belongs to the day or all of it belongs to the night. Metilim oto lechomer shenei yamim. Fine.
Venechleku raboteinu hatana'im veha'amora'im be'inyan zeman bein hashemashot, venifsekah halachah keRabbi Yehudah, de'inyan bein hashemashot shel erev Shabbat, uchefi bi'ur Rava baGemara sham beshitato, shebein hashemashot matchil miyad im hashki'ah, ela shenechleku harishonim mah hi sheki'at hachamah. The tanna'im (Tannaitic sages) and Amoraim disagreed about the time of bein hashemashot. The halachah was decided according to Rabbi Yehudah regarding bein hashemashot on Friday evening, as Rava explains the position in the Gemara there: bein hashemashot begins immediately at sunset. The early authorities disagreed about what sunset means.
Venimshach bein hashemashot keshi'ur mahalach adam beinoni, sheloshet riv'ei mil. Bein hashemashot lasts the time it takes an average person to walk three quarters of a mil. Uve'inyan motza'ei Shabbat, nifsekah halachah keRabbi Yose, shesover shebein hashemashot matchil miyad achar shemistayeim bein hashemashot leshitat Rabbi Yehudah. Regarding the conclusion of Shabbat, the halachah was decided according to Rabbi Yose, who holds that bein hashemashot begins immediately after bein hashemashot according to Rabbi Yehudah ends. That’s another minute. Ve'ad she'avar zeman shel kechatzi dakah, chatzi dakah even, hu sheloshet kochavim, shehu kevar vadai lailah. After half a minute, when three stars appear, it is definitely night. Ve'al zeman zeh yesh lehosif tosefet mu'etet. You add a little tosefet Shabbat, adding time to Shabbat. Add two minutes and you have Rabbi Yose plus tosefet Shabbat.
Venatnu baGemara simanim nosafim to know bein hashemashot: sheka'asher nir'eh kochav echad bashamayim, hu adayin yom. When one star is seen in the sky, it’s still day. Ucheshenir'eh shenei kochavim, hu zeman bein hashemashot. When two stars are seen, it’s bein hashemashot. Ucheshenir'eh sheloshah kochavim, hu lailah. When three stars are seen, it’s night. The Gemara says these are three medium stars, not the large stars that are visible during the day and not the small stars that are visible only at night. Wow. Okay, to be an astrologer. They still teach that stuff there? Fine. Back and forth.
Shitat Rabbeinu Tam: bein hashemashot does not begin immediately at sunset. Look at what we learned today: keshmitkaseh hashemesh min ha'ayin. Rather, there are two sunsets: shkiah rishonah, which is nothing, hu miyad keshmitkaseh hashemesh min ha'ayin, and at that time it is still a complete day. Venimshach zeman ad shi'ur mahalach sheloshah sheloshah mil vareva: the time lasts three and a quarter mil, 58 and a half minutes. Ve'az hu zeman sheki'ah sheniyah, and then the second sunset begins, followed by bein hashemashot. Ucheshitah zo shel Rabbeinu Tam hiskimu rov raboteinu harishonim. Most of our Rishonim (early authorities) agreed with this view of Rabbeinu Tam. Remember, the majority—we give credit to Rabbeinu Tam, but most of the Rishonim hold like Rabbeinu Tam. That’s a misnomer. They follow Rabbeinu Tam. I’m not being stringent like Rabbeinu Tam. You’re not being stringent like most of the Rishonim.
Shitat haGeonim: bein hashemashot begins immediately at sunset, like we hold, keshmistayeimet yeridat galgal hashemesh, for 13 and a half minutes. Our later authorities disagreed about the view of the main halachic decisors, the Rif and the Rambam: whether their view is like Rabbeinu Tam or like the Geonim. As I told you this morning, I said the Rambam is like Rabbeinu Tam. This afternoon we said the Rambam is not like Rabbeinu Tam. That’s a dispute about how to understand the Rambam. It’s an old subject.
The third view regarding the time of bein hashemashot is the view of Rabbeinu Eliezer miMetz, which relates to Friday-night candles. He holds that sunset is 18 minutes before our sunset, and that’s when bein hashemashot begins. That’s where we got the practice of lighting candles 18 minutes before sunset: to be concerned for Rabbeinu Eliezer miMetz, who holds that perhaps that is already Shabbat. Could that be? It is according to him. According to him, sunset, 18 minutes later, is tzeit. It’s a different approach. You got it? We’re done with it.
Verova diposkim dachu shitato. Most of the poskim rejected his view. Rova diposkim ein tzarich lachush afilu lechumra: there’s no need to be concerned for it, even stringently. Because for a woman, we give her 18 minutes. Yes, but we just do it as a buffer. Right, we do it—but why do we choose 18 minutes before sunset? To be concerned. But if you can’t, we’re allowed to do melachah; we don’t tell her not to do melachah if, in fact, it’s still day.
Da'at Maran Shulchan Aruch keshitat Rabbeinu Tam, bein lehakel bein lehachmir. Maran’s view in the Shulchan Aruch is like Rabbeinu Tam, both leniently and stringently. That’s for sure. Maran held that on Friday night you have until 15 and a half minutes after sunset to drive a car. That’s what he held. Some want to say he retracted.
Bizmaneinu minhag kol Yisrael bechol mekomot moshvoteihem le'inyan Erev Shabbat keda'at haGeonim. In our time, the custom of all Israel in all their places of residence regarding Friday evening is according to the Geonim. They accept Shabbat before sunset, while the sun is still above the earth. Many of our authorities agreed that in this matter we follow the Geonim, because that is the custom according to their view. Vadai sheken yesh linhog be'Erev Shabbat. That is certainly how one should conduct oneself on Friday evening. Don’t come along and say, “I follow Maran. I’m driving a car until...” Maran is one thing. The custom on Friday evening is like the Geonim.
Vechen le'inyan Motza'ei Shabbat, vechen le'inyan Motza'ei Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement), umotza'ei yamim tovim in Israel. Very good point. Thank you for clarifying that. Af al pi sheminhag Yisrael bechol mekomot moshvoteihem keshitat haGeonim af le'inyan Motza'ei Shabbat, although the custom of Israel everywhere follows the Geonim even at the conclusion of Shabbat, umi she'eino choshesh leshitat Rabbeinu Tam, ein limchot beyado. A person who is not concerned for Rabbeinu Tam—rasha gamur hu?—should not be stopped. You have to speak to the person. Here you go.
Mikol makom, mikeivan sheda'at rov rabboteinu haRishonim uMaran Shulchan Aruch beineihem keda'at Rabbeinu Tam, veyesh mehaAcharonim shehe'idu shenahagu bimkomam keshitat Rabbeinu Tam, nevertheless, since most of our early authorities, including Maran Shulchan Aruch, hold like Rabbeinu Tam, and some later authorities testified that people in their places followed Rabbeinu Tam, ra'uy venachon me'od lechol yere shamayim lehachmir beMotza'ei Shabbat, veYom HaKippurim, veyamim tovim keshitat Rabbeinu Tam. It is very proper for anyone who fears Heaven to be stringent at the conclusion of Shabbat, Yom Kippur, and festivals according to Rabbeinu Tam, and not to do melachah until 72 minutes after sunset. At least do not do work prohibited by Torah law, d'Oraita.
On Yom Tov (festival) we do. Because it’s the second day of Yom Tov, honey. Ah, the second day of Yom Tov is all the Maariv (evening prayer) deRabbanan (rabbinic law), so we’re not concerned for Rabbeinu Tam at the conclusion of the second day of Yom Tov. I know guys in Deal are stringent, but where are they going? It’s not going to matter, right? Why be stringent for Rabbeinu Tam? Tired is in it. From the first night to the second night, you wait. On the first night we don’t do melachah anyway on Yom Tov. Right, cooking is the issue. You’re not doing anything. Right. Anyway, we have Yom Kippur; Yom Kippur is an issur karet (spiritual excision), a prohibition punishable by karet. We’re concerned for Rabbeinu Tam stringently, but not for rabbinic prohibitions. Only for d'Oraita prohibitions, not rabbinic ones.
Sir, what about cooking from one day to the other? Cooking from one day to the other is an interesting question. That’s rabbinic, maybe, if you’re cooking. But if you’re cooking and it’s ready the second night—I mean, if you’re cooking in that time, it’s dangerous. If it was ready beforehand, okay, then you have it on Yom Tov, the first second—the second night, right? The second night. First night to the second night. Yeah, first to the second. I mean, you know.
Okay, those who are concerned for Rabbeinu Tam—a guy wants to talk smack. Anyway, beautiful. That’s a proper chumrah. I remember Hacham Ovadia alav hashalom (may peace be upon him) in this synagogue, on one of his trips. I was following him around at every place he went, from Lakewood to here, to Deal. I caught him in every spot. He came to Flatbush, no? So he came here on Motza'ei Shabbat; we all came to the old Ahabah. Hacham Shaul came too. It was the old seats, everybody packed in. They put the microphone in front of him. He looked at his watch—he was wearing something like a Casio F-11 watch—and turned to the guy and told him something, and they moved the microphone away. He started to talk. He speaks very softly, so all the Egyptians said, “Hey, put the mic! Put the mic!” There was a reason he didn’t put the mic in front of him: he didn’t want to speak into it. I told the guys, “It’s Rabbeinu Tam.” The rabbi wasn’t going to speak into the microphone until Rabbeinu Tam. Sure enough, after 72 minutes, he turned back.
It’s funny, because we learned that the microphone wasn’t really prohibited; it was just mar'it ayin, the appearance of impropriety, right? Yeah, but no, he held that the microphone could—it, he wasn’t going to get into the discussion of whether the microphone was d'Oraita (Torah law) or not. Plus, it could be mar'it ayin; he didn’t want to show everybody. So he didn’t speak into the microphone until after Rabbeinu Tam.
Now, by the way, vehanohagim lehachmir bechol motza'ei Shabbat keshitat Rabbeinu Tam ra'ui sheyinhagu ken af bemotza'ei Shabbat Chanukah (Shabbat of Chanukah). Those who are stringent at the conclusion of every Shabbat according to Rabbeinu Tam should do so also at the conclusion of Shabbat Chanukah. Don’t light the menorah until 72 minutes after. You light the menorah—that’s a d'Oraita. Okay, fine. Midivrei Rabbeinu ha-Ari besefer Sha'ar HaKavanot (Gate of Intentions), nir'eh shesover keshitat Rabbeinu Tam vesho'er re'ayot. From the words of Rabbeinu ha-Ari in Sha'ar HaKavanot, it appears that he holds like Rabbeinu Tam and brings other proofs. Omnam lefi mah shekatav ha-Ben Ish Chai ein re'ayah midvarav. But according to what the Ben Ish Chai wrote, there’s no proof from his words. In any case, even according to the Ben Ish Chai’s interpretation of the Ari, there’s no clear proof that he holds like the Geonim. So with Rabbeinu ha-Ari, we can go back and forth.
The next thing: hazman ha'amur le'el le'inyan bein hashemashot, bein leshitat haGeonim, bein leshitat Rabbeinu Tam, yesh omerim shehu besha'ot shavot. Some say the times are fixed. According to the Geonim, there are 13 and a half minutes after sunset, and some say it’s a fixed time. According to Rabbeinu Tam, it’s 58 and a half minutes or 72, a fixed time; it doesn’t fluctuate. Always 13 and a half or 72. He says it like this: 13 and a half, bang. It’s a fixed time. It’s not zmaniyot, proportional hours.
Ulam da'at rov poskim zmanim elu hem besha'ot zmaniyot. But the view of most poskim (halachic authorities) is that these times are proportional hours. Umah shenaktu shelosh esreh vechetzi dakot veshiv'im ushtayim lefi hayamim shehayom vehalailah shavim. The times of 13 and a half and 72 minutes were established according to the days when day and night are equal, in Tishrei and Nisan, when it’s six to six. Aval bayamim shesha'ot hayom arukot yoter misha'ot halailah, hayom mehakayitz, yeheih zman zeh aruch yoter. In the summer, when the daylight hours are longer than the nighttime hours, this time will be longer. Uvyamim shesha'ot hayom ktzarot, yom mehachoref, yeheih zman zeh katzar yoter. In the winter, when the daylight hours are shorter, this time will be shorter. So 13 and a half minutes was the average. It could be less or more, depending on the time of year.
Mikol makom af hasoverim shezmanim elu zmaniyot, mimashma'ut divrei rabim mehem ein hechre'ach shesoverim shezman alot hashachar (dawn) vetzet hakochavim hu lefi minyan sha'ot hayom sheyesh lechalkam lishneim asar chalakim ve'al pi ma'arechet kamah hu sha'ah zmanit achat. Even those who hold that these times are proportional, it doesn’t necessarily follow from many of their words that dawn and the appearance of the stars are calculated by dividing the daylight hours into twelve parts and using that calculation to determine a proportional hour. Veyesh lomar shekavanatam le'inyan alot hashachar vetzet hakochavim zmanim elu mishtanim lefi orech sha'ot hayom ulefi ha'ofek (horizon) uvimdinot harachokot mikav hamashveh yoter letzad tzafon. Rather, their intent may be that dawn and the appearance of the stars vary according to the length of the day, the horizon, and countries farther north from the equator. That explains why these times change.
Veda'at Rabbeinu ha-Gra, gedolei raboteinu, hazmanim ha'amurim le'el hagam lefi ofek (horizon) Eretz Yisrael. According to the Gra and our great authorities, these times are according to the horizon of Eretz Yisrael, even though Eretz Yisrael is close to the kav hamashveh, the equator. Aval bimdinot hanotot letzad tzafon, in the north, kegon medinot tzfon Eiropa umdinot tzfon Artzot ha-Berit, in northern Europe and northern North America, yeheih zman bein hashemashot aruch harbeh yoter lefi ha'ofek bechol makom umakom. The Gra holds that bein hashemashot changes according to each place. Ve'af bimei Nisan veTishrei yihyu zmanim elu aruchim yoter lefi ha'ofek, because the sun doesn’t set as quickly. No problem, I understand that. Even in the winter, their words make a lot of sense. Veyesh lachush lashitah keivan de'ika denohagim ken. If you hold like the Geonim, you can’t say that 13 and a half minutes is night. Look outside at 13 and a half minutes: it’s not night. Nobody sees any stars. Bein hashemashot has to be longer, according to the place where you are.
Then he says: machloket haGe'onim veRabbeinu Tam yesodoteha kedumah me'od mizman haGe'onim veharishonim. The dispute between the Geonim and Rabbeinu Tam has very old foundations, going back to the time of the Geonim and the Rishonim. It continued through all the generations among the Sages of Israel who lived in countries where the horizon differed greatly. Some lived in Europe and some in Eretz Yisrael. Velachen I efshar lomar sherishonim hasoverim keRabbeinu Tam ta'u chas veshalom behavanat metzi'ut tzet hakochavim. So we can’t say that the early authorities who held like Rabbeinu Tam, Heaven forbid, misunderstood the reality of the appearance of the stars.
Or should we say Rabbeinu Tam established his view because he lived in Tzarfat, France, and—Someone wants to say, “Rabbeinu Tam wrote it because he lived in France but didn’t know Eretz Yisrael was different”? That’s frightening to say about Rabbeinu Tam! It’s a simple thing: he knew the world had different—time zones? Or should we say he wrote his Mishnah only according to the horizon of France? It’s hard to say that he wrote his view only for France. He’s writing about the Gemara; he’s writing to explain the Gemara. Was his interpretation of the Gemara only for France? It’s hard to say that.
Sheharei matzinu ligdolei Yisrael bitkufat haRishonim shepasku keshitat Rabbeinu Tam. We find great Torah authorities in the period of the Rishonim who ruled like Rabbeinu Tam and lived in Eretz Yisrael. They had never gone to France. So how could you say that? Velachen shitat Rabbeinu Tam sherirah vekayemet bechol hamakomot. Therefore, the view of Rabbeinu Tam is established and applies everywhere.
Af hanohegim be'Eretz Yisrael uvisvivoteyha lehachmir beMotza'ei Shabbat keshitat Rabbeinu Tam, bimkom sheyesh tzorech badavar, yecholim lehakeil bimei hakayitz la'asot melachah after 72 minutes from sheki'ah, even though the time isn’t proportional. Even if you follow the proportional calculation, it could be 90 minutes. You understand? Rabbeinu Tam is 72. It could be longer, it could be 90. But he says you can be lenient if you have something important to do, and still be someone who follows Rabbeinu Tam. As he said before, it’s also—not—we know he didn’t say it was the law.
He says here: Ve'af al pi sheminhag Yisrael keda'at haGeonim, velachen tzarich lehizaher bechol mitzvah (commandment) shezmanah bayom la'asotah. Even though the custom of Israel is according to the Geonim, one must be careful to perform every mitzvah whose time is during the day before sunset. Don’t start fooling around like Rabbeinu Tam and say, “I have another 58 and a half minutes.” Bechol makom shitat Rabbeinu Tam re'uyah bimkom hatzorech lehitztaref lesafek sefeika. In a case of need, Rabbeinu Tam’s view can be included in a double doubt.
Uvediavad im lo kiyem mitzvah shezmanah bayom, for example, a person didn’t put on tefillin and now it’s within 13 and a half minutes, you can make a safek sefeika: there’s the doubt of Rabbeinu Tam, and it’s day. If you want to say like the Geonim, there’s a doubt whether bein hashemashot is day. So you have a safek sefeika; you could put on tefillin. Not with a berachah (blessing), probably. I don’t think with a berachah. Oh, he says la'asot hamitzvah be'otah sha'ah ulevarech aleyha: perform the mitzvah at that time and recite the blessing over it. Okay, that’s a chiddush, a novel insight. It’s a safek sefeika, though. No, I don’t know about the safek sefeika. Maybe no blessing. You do the mitzvah, without a blessing. But he said to recite the blessing. Well, we have Sefirat HaOmer (counting of the Omer); that’s specifically the case. Right, for a blessing on a mitzvah, we say it in a safek sefeika.
Okay, or we do it on Yom Kippur. That’s why we’re not so careful anymore on Yom Kippur to get the Kohanim after sheki'ah. You count the Kohanim (priests) after sheki'ah; we have the safek sefeika of Rabbeinu Tam. We have that safek sefeika. Yeah, we try to get it, but I’m not going to ruin the kavanah, intention, to get sheki'ah. Rush, rush, we’re two minutes after, and we have that.
Vechen tinok shenit'akvu mimulo. Sometimes they didn’t circumcise a tinok on a Tuesday night. Tuesday is the eighth day; it’s sheki'ah. Within the 13 and a half minutes, you have a safek sefeika that it’s day, so circumcise the child. Vechen mi shene'enas velo kidesh al hakos beleil Shabbat. If someone forgot to make Kiddush (sanctification over wine) on Friday night, he has to make Kiddush on Shabbat. He has to make up the Kiddush he didn’t make Friday night on Shabbat. He can make that Kiddush up until bein hashemashot, including bein hashemashot, because he has a safek sefeika.
Vechen ishah sheshachachah la'asot bedikot hefsek betaharah. That happens a lot. She forgot to make hefsek taharah, a cleanliness check before counting. She wants to start counting day one, right? Now, on any day—not only Friday or Shabbat—say it’s Tuesday. It’s sunset, 10 minutes after sunset, and she calls you: “I didn’t make hefsek taharah.” No problem, make the hefsek taharah; you have a safek sefeika that it’s day. I’m almost positive everybody didn’t allow this. I could be positive for sure. That’s a lot. No, I’m saying there is obviously—No, no, he lets them do it, but he screams at them so they don’t fall—Okay, I like that approach. That’s the right approach: scream at them not to rely on that. When that becomes lechatchilah, from the outset—that’s the right approach. Venizkerah achar kach bizman bein hashemashot ta'aseh bedikat hefsek betaharah, veyesh litz'ok aleyhem. If she remembers afterward, during bein hashemashot, she should do the hefsek taharah check, and one should yell at them. In any case, lechatchilah, she should try to do it beforehand.
Haminhag lehachmir beMotza'ei Shabbat keRabbeinu Tam mipnei sherov Rishonim Maran Shulchan Aruch pasak keshitato. The custom is to be stringent at the conclusion of Shabbat according to Rabbeinu Tam, because most of the Rishonim and Maran Shulchan Aruch ruled according to his view. Af al pi she'Erev Shabbat bitlu keda'at haGeonim, even though on Friday evening they nullified it according to the Geonim—that is the custom of Eretz Yisrael and other places—it isn’t considered as if someone is following two contradictory stringencies. Vechayotzei vezeh, ra'ui venachon lehachmir bishtei tzedadim latzet mizeh hasafeik. It is proper and correct to be stringent in both directions to get out of this doubt. Fine.
Okay, then he goes on to respond. Let’s get to milah. So he’s saying 13 and a half now? For what? Bein hashemashot. Of course! Everybody holds that 13 and a half is bein hashemashot. The question is, from when? From sunset, like the Geonim, or like Rabbeinu Tam, after 58 and a half minutes? But he’s letting you use the safek sefeika in the 13 and a half minutes, using Rabbeinu Tam to get a doubt that it’s day according to Rabbeinu Tam, and a doubt according to the Geonim. So now let’s go to a case like this. We’re going to have to ask the American rabbis now, the American rabbinate. Sure, Rav Moshe had this question. SCA holds sunset. Shabbat, everything. Well, it depends. For the mikveh, ritual bath, they hold you can go during the day, so you have to know which question you’re asking. It all depends. Exactly. You go to the manicurist first and then to the mikveh, so it’s Baskin-Robbins.
So now the question is, what do we hold here? What does the American rabbinate hold? Listen, if I’m not mistaken, Rav Moshe had a very interesting shitah. Rav Moshe held that 52 minutes in America is Rabbeinu Tam. He said in Europe it’s looking at—He held that based on the—When we opened the shul, we went to Hacham Baruch. He said 40. That’s the Geonim. Then some JDub guy kept pounding us: “50, 50, 50, 50.” So we went back: “Rabbi, what do we do?” “40. 40.” Shaare Zion did 35. The guy came at us again, so I would call Hacham Ya'akov. He’d say, “40. 40. 40.” But that’s the Geonim. No, Shaare Zion did 35 when we were young, between you and me. There was a sign, a white sign on the glass doors: “Havdalah, separation between Shabbat and weekday, 35 minutes after sunset.”
But why is it 40? Is 40 just to be safe, Rabbi? What’s 40 instead of 20? Why 40 instead of 20? We didn’t see the views; that’s what I’m saying. Is there a reason, or just more time? Like Chabad, just to do it? No, because—because reality. Reality? The light. Yeah. So they hold that the Geonim—translate the Geonim to New York standard time—it’s going to take 40 minutes to reach what the Geonim said happens in Israel at 20, or 13 and a half minutes. Hacham Feinstein said that at 50 minutes, Rabbeinu Tam has probably already happened. Things speed up, whatever.
So 40 is for sure according to Rabbeinu Tam? At 50. They follow 50, like Rav Moshe. Nobody had a berit milah? No, that’s what I want to know: what do they hold about berit milah? Rabbi Scaba is going to have it, so we’ll have to ask Rabbi Scaba about his tradition. I never asked Hacham Mansour. If I’m not mistaken, the Hacham Ovadia people hold 20 minutes even over here. I heard him tell a story once to someone. Obviously, when he has to give a berit milah on Shabbat, he asks. He has to ask; he’s the person responsible. It’s his avon. It’s a tough job.
He said—I think he asks his she'elot, questions, to Hacham Yosef, and Hacham Yosef has a later time than Hacham Baruch. A person said, “Listen, I do this berit milah on Sunday.” Almost 20 minutes. He said, “So what do you call?” He said, “Oh, isn’t it true that Hacham Baruch is this?” He said, “That’s true. If you want, these mohalim—circumcisers—will do it.” Yeah, so obviously Hacham Yosef is later, because Hacham Baruch told me after Hacham Ovadiah’s shiur, I asked him if there’s any difference in New York. He said, “No difference. It’s 20 minutes. It’s the same 20 minutes.” You can be lenient to do all these things, like ending the fasts, but that was rabbinic law for fasts, so I’m not worried about that. I don’t know what he holds. Hacham Ovadiah doesn’t discuss New York here, but I don’t think he makes a distinction for New York either.
There’s one more question we have to discuss, and I just found it in the poskim: what if the husband already accepted Shabbat? In the summer, let’s say the husband prayed early, and then they had the baby. Do you go over Shabbat already, I mean Shabbat, or—? Really, they discuss this, Rabbi? Yeah, they have cases like that. I’m sure it’s a case, but what’s the reasoning? The child didn’t accept Shabbat. I have to agree with everything you’re saying here; I’m just letting you see the context. No, they have it. Let me see the context I saw. Maybe I’m not giving these questions the proper kavod, respect, that they deserve.
The rabbi made fun of people who added the extra ten minutes before. Yeah, debazilta, I’m going to make fun of these guys too. Rabbi, you know what I think the custom in Yerushalayim is? They light candles even earlier. They have it earlier than the 18 minutes, like—Yeah, he doesn’t like that chumrah. Okay, he didn’t like it. I was wondering. It follows the counties. Optional. What’s that? Bein hashemashot. So that’s Michael’s guy? That’s Michael’s guy. Shabbat is just optional? Yeah, it’s antiquated. No, we give you the kavod for the Hacham Ben Tzion material, so we have to give this one time too.
Let’s see here. Zeh le'umat zeh. For sure, Hacham Ben Tzion also has a piece. Oh, there are cases. There are cases. Oh, okay, I take it back. Great cases.
Perek vav (chapter six). He has a nice case. Stop here. Beautiful, we’re going to do milah nicely. The question in perek vav was zeman hamilah, the time of circumcision. Nolad bein hashemashot, okay. Nolad bein hashemashot beyom chol, monim lo mehalailah. Make believe he was born at night, and then you count nine days as if he was born during the day. Shehu safek shemini (doubtful eighth day). He is a doubtful eighth day. Ve'al avi haben lirshom bimduyak et rega haleidah. The father should make sure to record the exact time of birth. After he does the Lamaze with his wife, let him make sure he’s not too busy doing breathing techniques. That’s the main thing to do; forget all the other stuff. Shoot a video, Rabbi. Put down the camera for a minute and mark down the time. Although the camera probably has the time on it.
Now look at this case. Im hatinok nolad be'Artzot Habrit (United States). There you go; that’s the case. Vehigi'u la'Aretz lemolo bayom hashemini. They arrived in Israel to circumcise the child on the eighth day. Because you gain the day. Yeah, it’s not eight days. They bring him to Israel to circumcise him. Uveglaal hefreshay hasha'ot, adayin lo higi'a yom shemini from when he was born. You gain six hours. Right. Af al pi chen malin oto bayom hashemini lefi mekom hamilah. Even so, they circumcise him on the eighth day according to the place where the circumcision takes place. Wow, that’s a chiddush! Even though, in reality, eight days haven’t passed. Right, we say eight days—
Al pi hamevo'ar beTohorat Habayit, chelek bet, regarding a woman who completed her purity process in Artzot Habrit (United States) and traveled to Israel during the shiv'ah nekiyim (seven clean days), she does not have to wait until it is night according to the United States. She doesn’t wait another six hours; she can go to the mikveh at 2:00 in the morning. Go then. Wow, great case. Ayein sham shedacha divrei mi sheratzah lechalek bezeh bein Shabbat veYom Tov shehu davar kelali levein shiv'ah nekiyim shezeh davar shel yachid. He rejects the words of the person who wanted to distinguish between Shabbat and Yom Tov, which is a general matter, and the seven clean days, which is an individual matter. Vechen nifsak beSova Semachot. So it’s a chiddush. Great case. That you go by where you are. It’s the reality. Bottom line, right now it’s the eighth day, even though you’re short six hours. Great case. The child—it’s better. She said... The reality is, you’re short six hours. Yeah, for that child. The child didn’t live for that amount of time.
The rabbi taught us that women are fertile before—they should do the taharah and travel two hours—two days backward. Rabbi Weiner told me—Right, travel back. Rabbi Weiner told me there was a case against the chumrah of Rav Elyashiv, where a woman was ovulating on Tishah B'Av (Ninth of Av fast) and they wanted a heiter (permission) to—what do you call it? He said, “No, this is what you do. You go—They have money? Let them go to Australia. Australia, because it’s winter and it’s 12 hours before. It’ll be a short day and 12 hours earlier, and they’ll end up hitting the ovulation at the—what do you call it?” Crazy? The rabbi... It’s crazy. Now you know when you see Jews on that flight: that’s the Tishah B'Av Australia flight.
Okay, let’s just see one more. That’s a bein hashemashot case, but there’s one more. Yeah, im karah ones velo hispiku lamul ad sheshak'ah chamah, yesh lemolo miyad bebein hashemashot, shehu yud-gimmel dakot vechetzi, like Hacham David, velo lidchot et habrit al lemachorat. If an unavoidable circumstance happened and they weren’t able to circumcise him until sunset, they should circumcise him immediately during bein hashemashot, which is 13 and a half minutes, rather than postpone the brit until the next day. And you can even make the berachot (blessing). After 13 and a half minutes, that’s a problem. So he says, Tet-Zayin. Tet-Zayin, where’s this number? Tet-Zayin, he says like this: uVe-Pitchei Teshuvah siman reish samech bet hevi beshem Shut She'ilat Ya'avetz, dechatav dehicha dene'ensu o nit'atzlu, beyom chet ad bein hashemashot, they're busy taking pictures, velo malu, adif lamul bebein hashemashot. Maybe they had a mohel they couldn’t get to do the milah all of a sudden in the afternoon. Or the time—the seventh day. He says they were late; the rabbi wrote that they were lazy. Right. Ad yud-gimmel dakot, do it. It’s a doubtful eighth day; you can do it.
Vezeh leshon ha-Ya'avetz: dela mash'inan mitzvot (commandments) ad lemachar. Why delay the commandments until tomorrow? Mi amrat dilma bein hashemashot laylah hu ve'ein malin balaylah. You might say, “Maybe it’s night and you don’t circumcise at night.” Ha leita, sheharei bedi'avad milah shelo bizmanah (circumcision not in its proper time) is valid at night. Ve'im ken lamah nafsid bechinam efsharut kiyum mitzvah ketikunah? Why should we needlessly lose the chance to fulfill the mitzvah in its proper time? On one hand, perhaps you’ll do it on the eighth day, so maybe you caught the eighth day. He’s not even using the safek sefeika. He’s just saying there’s a tzad, a possibility—You have nothing to lose, in other words? Right, you have the possibility of catching the eighth day, and circumcision not performed at its proper time is valid at night, so you might as well. But not if it’s definitely night, because then you don’t have the possibility that it’s day. That’s obvious. Of course. Would they let you use Rabbeinu Tam, the 58 minutes, or no? No, he says not like Rabbeinu Tam. No. Even though in the other cases we said yes—with tefillin and all that—we wouldn’t let him do it for berit milah.
Right now he’s saying: ba'al berit shenoheg keshitat haGeonim, venolad lo ben beleil Shabbat kesha'ah achar hashki'ah. A man follows the view of the Geonim, and his son was born Friday night an hour after sunset. Ulerabbeinu Tam bein hashemashot. According to Rabbeinu Tam it’s bein hashemashot, so it’s forbidden for a mohel who follows Rabbeinu Tam to circumcise this child, kevan sheleminhago hu safek shema nolad beyom shishi. Because according to his custom, it’s doubtful that the child was born on Friday. Wow. So a chasid (Hasid), a chasidishe (Hasidic) type of person who follows Rabbeinu Tam going into Shabbat, cannot be the mohel for this child, because according to his view, the child might have been born on Friday.
Here’s the one we left out. Let’s see if I have it right. Ken pasak haRav Wosner. They say he can’t do it. A chasidishe mohel cannot be the mohel because he holds Rabbeinu Tam. Tamim tamim: you have to be straight.
Tinok shenolad kodem sheki'ah, vehatzibur kevar hitpalelu Arvit (evening prayer) mibe'od yom. A child born before sunset, while the congregation had already prayed Arvit early. Wow. Dino ke'ilu nolad beyom vav. His status is as if he was born on Friday. Venimol lishmonah beyom vav, af im kol anshei ha'ir kiblu Shabbat vehitpalelu Arvit mibe'od yom. He is circumcised on the eighth day, Friday, even if all the people of the city accepted Shabbat and prayed Arvit while it was still day. You can’t pray Arvit, can’t pray Minchah early? The Shulchan Aruch says befeirush in reish samech bet: ein davar zeh talui bitfilah. This matter isn’t dependent on prayer. If they prayed while it was still day, it doesn’t make it lenient or stringent. The same applies at the conclusion of Shabbat. If they prayed Arvit early on Motza'ei Shabbat, we won’t say it’s Saturday night; it’s still Shabbat, and then the milah will be on Shabbat. So it’s not dependent on prayer at all, as you thought. Maran discussed it.
Now I have the last one. Look at this. Mohel shenikra lamul milah bizmanah be'erev Shabbat achar pelag Minchah: a mohel is called to perform a circumcision in its proper time on Friday after pelag Minchah (half of the afternoon period), vehu kevar kibeil Shabbat. He has already accepted Shabbat. It’s a milah on the eighth day, Friday. They pray early in shul—3:30 Minchah, Arvit—and now they call the mohel for the berit milah. “The injury,” he says. Veyeish mohalim acherim shelo kiblu Shabbat: there are other mohalim who haven’t accepted Shabbat. Sheyesh lehistafeik im mutar lo lamul o sheyesh leha'adif mohalim acherim, ve'im ein sham mohel acher, ya'aseh she'elat chacham. There’s a doubt whether he’s permitted to circumcise or whether they should prefer other mohalim, and if there isn’t another mohel, he should ask a she'elat chacham (ask a rabbi). Well, we’re asking you! Why does he say to ask a rabbi? Ask somebody else, that’s why. Ask somebody else. The local rabbi.
That’s interesting. Im milah bishmonah dochah Shabbat umilah beShabbat dochah Shabbat. If circumcision on the eighth day overrides Shabbat, and circumcision on Shabbat overrides Shabbat. Right, but something like—It’s not really milah—Right, it’s not really—Milah bishmonah. Wait, if you say it’s milah bishmonah, then for sure he could do it. Right, that’s the tzad. Is it circumcision on the eighth day that overrides Shabbat, or is it circumcision on Shabbat that overrides Shabbat? In a chakirah, a conceptual inquiry. Yeah, sure. In a chakirah? Somebody has a chakirah? What, what, what? That’s the mechanics of it. Yeah, and that’s the nafka minah, practical difference. If you say it’s the eighth day that overrides Shabbat, then it’s the eighth day, and he can do it. If you say no, it’s Shabbat that overrides—Look at this question, and he’s still asking: what are you talking about, the eighth day or Shabbat? Who cares? Is there a nafka minah? What about—Well, let’s say you have a guy—All right, there’s a nafka minah. He says, “Get his car, come.” That’s it. Okay, so we’ll see, but maybe we’ll talk about this one.
Baruch Adonai le'olam (Blessed is the Lord forever), amen ve'amen. Rabbi Chananyah ben Akashya omer (Rabbi Chananyah ben Akashya says). Amen.