The Aruch Hashulchan said that the only point that matters when determining whether you need to do tevilat kelim (immersion of utensils) is who owns the company. 151, not 151. Who owns the company. If a Jew owns the company, it makes no difference if all the workers are Chinese. If a Chinese owned the company, even if the workers are Jewish and they are the ones who actually made the kli (utensil), it is owned by a goy (non-Jew), so you have to do tevilat keli. It goes according to the—
We still have our question about the Baccarat glasses. A friend sent me beautiful glasses for Rosh Hashanah. She owns the company, the design, the patent, everything, but not the plant or the factory. She sent the design to China, or somewhere, to have the glasses manufactured. Do we consider the owner of the company, of the factory in China to be Chinese, so therefore you have to do tevilat kelim? Or do you say, “No, at that point they are shlichim, agents, of hers: they are making those cups only for her, and she owns them, so we don’t need tevilah (immersion)”? It is a big hava amina (initial premise). I’m going according to what we’ve learned, but we haven’t learned this case yet. Has she paid them? Very simple. And she pays, and she is the one giving them the idea. They cannot do it without her. But that—Yes, but that company who manufactures it, they are goyim, and this belongs to the goyim, no? It doesn't matter if the Chinese is Jewish. Everything is—It's cost to make. It's not something that that she ordered like they do this glass and they are—She ordered 10,000 for—She didn't do that, they wouldn't have manufacture like that. It's more like her employee in this case, or not?
Before we get to that, let’s consider a factory owned by a Jew and a goy. I remember that when I became a partner in a restaurant, I didn’t immerse the utensils because I was a partner with a goy. But that is not my case. The case is a factory owned by a Jew and a goy.
Do you have to immerse the utensils? You don't do tevilah. Why? Because the Jew is already—How do you know? Your case is the opposite. Half of the plate you do tevilah and the other half you don't. Source 16 says, “kli shena'asah beveit charoshet sheshutfei yehudi vegoy, ta'un tevilah bivrachah” (a utensil made in a factory jointly owned by a Jew and a non-Jew requires immersion with a blessing). You have to do tevilat kelim with a berachah (blessing)—exactly the opposite of what you said.
Veyesh omerim, and some say, she'ein levarech—that you do it, but without a berachah. Vehu hadin, and the same law applies, in a beit charoshet beva'alut chevrat menayot, a factory owned by a stock company. That is the case if you own a share in Baccarat. I don’t know whether Baccarat is a public company, but it is part of LVMH, so it is a public company. Kulam omerim eich lada'at mi ba'al ha'eisek, anachnu neda mi ba'al ha'eisek (Everyone says, “How do we know who owns the business? We will know who owns the business.”). If there are many shutafim (partners), or if there are shares that are diluted, what are you going to say? Since part of it belongs to a goy, you already need to do tevilat kelim. You could leha'alot mikedushah mi mitum'ah shel hagoy likdushat Yisrael (raise it from the non-Jew’s impurity to the holiness of Israel). That was the chidush (novel insight). Shechelek menayot shel yehudi vechelek shel goyim (Some shares belong to a Jew and some to non-Jews), so you would have to do tevilat kelim.
If you don’t know who owns the specific company, 152, but the utensil was made in a place where most factories are owned by Jews, what is the halachah? In Bnei Brak. Is there three of them? No, wholesale, not manufacture. In Bnei Brak. Yalkut Yosef says, “bimkomot sherov batei hacharoshet lekelim hem yehudim vekanah kelim ve'eino yode'a im hem shel batei charoshet shel goyim o lo, ein tzarich tevilah” (Where most factories making utensils are Jewish-owned, one who does not know whether the utensils came from a non-Jewish-owned factory need not immerse them). If you buy from a company and don’t know whether a Jew owns it, but it is in a place that is mostly Yehudim (Jews), you don’t need to do tevilah.
Here is a similar case. You have a pan or a fork that a goyah (non-Jewish woman) used in a tareif (non-kosher), whatever, not tareif. Oh, it's a pan. She cooked with it, you put it aside, come back three days later, and it’s gone. Where is the spoon now? It is batel (nullified). If you ask some rabbis, they’ll tell you, “Do tevilah, do hag'alah, kashering by boiling, do everything.” Chas veshalom! Chad bitrei batel—one in two is batel. We go by rov, the majority. It is not yavesh beyavesh, dry mixed with dry; it is not lach, wet; it is not min bemino, one kind mixed with its own kind. It is yavesh beyavesh, dry mixed with dry, and batel. Chad bitrei batel. This could happen a lot: you put it aside, and then it is gone.
This halachah may be relevant to utensils used for food that are labeled “Made in Israel.” Consider a Kiddush (sanctification) cup, since the majority of companies that produce these items in Israel are owned by Jews. What is the halachah when a utensil is originally owned by a Jew, then sold or transferred to a non-Jew, and later reacquired by a Jew? For example, a regular kumkum, a kettle: you buy one at Publix. It was made in Israel, sold to Mr. Publix, who is a goy, and then you buy it from Publix. Do you have to do tevilah or not? We’re going to see why the answer might be no, or why it might be yes.
Publix uses consignment a lot, so they may not actually buy the item. If it is consignment, that means there is a big safek, a doubt, in halachah. If it is a doubt, you would probably have to do tevilah without a berachah. Could you say berachah on that? But first let’s see whether you are chayav, obligated, to do tevilah in a regular case where the store buys the utensil.
“Shulchan Aruch” was mentioned above. Yoreh De'ah, siman (section) kuf-chaf, se'if yud-alef (paragraph eleven), source 18, says, “Yisrael she-machar kli legoy vechazar vele'kacho mimenu, tzrich tevilah” (A Jew who sold a utensil to a non-Jew and then bought it back from him must immerse it). We all know that on Pesach (Passover), you sell it to a goy, get it back, and need to do tevilah. What is the difference here? The factory sells it to a goy supermarket, and the supermarket does it...
I would like to make a chiluk, a distinction. What is the distinction? The supermarket doesn’t use the utensil. It is packaged; they don’t open it. We learned that if they do it only for business, that was the kulah, leniency, for restaurants and similar cases. There it certainly applies. So I'm cholek (disagreeing) on this book. He is using that for manufactures. Here, the Shulchan Aruch is talking about a person who sells his kelim to a goy and then gets them back from the goy a year later, or even a day later. The non-Jew bought them to use. They live in it. But if you sold them to a store to sell, that is business; it is not a kli achilah, a food utensil. We said a kli achilah has to be used for achilah, eating. The transfer of ownership is very different from the regular case. I think that in this case you wouldn’t have to do tevilah at all, even according to the Shulchan Aruch.
But this is a machloket, a disagreement, isn’t it, Rabbi? What is the disagreement? The Beit Yosef says something else. Where? The Shulchan Aruch says something else above. 17. That passage is about places where most factories are Jewish-owned; we already covered it.
There is a huge problem with the pronunciation of vav (letter vav) and Bet (letter bet) in keri'at ha-Torah, Torah reading. In Venezuela, we don’t distinguish between V and B. Yeah, all Latinos. All the Argentinians, when they read Vayehi (And it came to pass), Vayomer Hashem el Moshe (Hashem said to Moses), say “Bayomer.” It’s a vav (letter vav)! Vayomer, not Bayomer. Next time you hear an Argentinian, if there is a patach vowel, im yesh patach. They say “Dabid.” Im yesh patach vedagesh, ata omer ba (If there is a patach and a dagesh, you say “ba”). It’s vav, not bet. The bnei Torah (Torah scholars) learn, but other people don't.
Veiter (further): Pitchei Teshuvah says, “tzrich tevilah, afilu shemocher hayorot legoy be'erev Pesach” (immersion is required, even one who sells the pots to a non-Jew on the eve of Pesach). When a person sells his yorah (pot), his kelim, to a non-Jew on erev Pesach, the eve of Pesach, mishum chametz (leavened food), because of chametz, tzrich tevilah le'achar Pesach (immersion is required after Pesach); lachen mutav shelo yimkerem (therefore, it is better not to sell them). He agreed with me. I always say not to sell your kelim. What are you selling them for? Not because of what is inside them. We don’t have to sell what’s inside; nobody does that. It's shtuyot (nonsense). People get carried away on erev Pesach. Sell only the real stuff, not the fake stuff. Can you solve it on the rabbinical level, that you're only selling the food that people sell to you? People sell you their chametz. What chametz? What's inside the pot? Who would buy that? What's the value of that? That's why I put the value. It's an NFT of the chametz. Put the value! If you don't put the value, you're not selling anything. What is the value of the beli'ot, absorbed traces, inside your pots? Possibility: about zero. So you’re not selling that. It's NFT, NFT you can sell. So then you're not selling anything! No, I heard you have to sell. What I heard, I don't care. The NFT chametz.
I don't sell if I don't have to sell. I sell the alcohol because it's not real chametz, it's the steam. We learned the sugya, the Talmudic discussion, about alcohol. The alcohol is not actual chametz; it comes from steam. There is a difference in taste between whiskey and beer, even though they come from the same grain. Beer is made by fermenting the liquid while the grain is boiled. It's maceration. The whiskey is made from the steam that comes off the liquid during distillation. They separate the sugar from the rest, and it comes out elsewhere. They may distill it several times, sometimes six, seven, or eight times, and then let it sit.
When you drink beer, you can taste the barley. The beer is water and barley boiled together; you take out the barley and keep the water. I’m simplifying, but that’s what it is. With whiskey, you could drink any whiskey, and you cannot find the taste of any grain. Zero! It has a different taste because it went up as steam, and the heat produced something else. There is a connection, which is why it is asur, forbidden. It is called ta'arovet chametz, a mixture containing chametz; it is not chametz mamash, actual chametz. That is why many poskim, halachic authorities, say you can sell it.
Remember the Ya'avetz? He says the same thing about ta'aruvet chametz. Even if you did not sell it or get rid of it, chametz she'avar alav haPesach, chametz that remained after Pesach, is mutar, permitted, because it is not chametz mamash. It is almost as if it is not chametz at all; it is like steam that comes from something that was chametz. Who said the steam is asur? It says chametz is asur, not the steam of the chametz. There are many poskim who permit it, though lo lekulei alma, not according to everyone. If someone forgot to sell a very expensive bottle and doesn’t know what to do, yesh al mi lismoch, there is someone to rely on.
I had a case like that with tequila. Tequila is made from agave, which is a plant. It isn’t chametz. Someone said it didn’t have a hechsher, kosher certification. But what does that have to do with chametz? You don’t need a hechsher on tequila. I know. I know, but for some reason why some are and some are not. But they don't check or they're not careful. Vodka is made in Russia from potatoes or celery. Ask the right rabbi.
What happens when you own kelim with a goy? You have a chiyuv, an obligation, to immerse them? “Yisrael vegoy shekanu keli beshutafut, ein tzarich tevilah” (If a Jew and a non-Jew bought a utensil in partnership, immersion is not required). Why is that? We have to use lomdes, analytical reasoning. Is it because the Jew doesn’t own it completely, or because the goy owns only part of it? If you learn it the way you explained the previous halachah, it is because the non-Jew doesn’t own it. But now it is because the Jew—there is no tum'ah, impurity, involving half. Ein chatzi, there is no half; ein chatzi tum'ah, there is no half-impurity; ein tum'ah bechatzi keli, there is no impurity in half a utensil.
What is the nafka mina, practical difference? Suppose a goy owns a kosher restaurant and sells you half of it, making you his partner. Do you need to do tevilah? Look at the Shach, source 21: “mashma dehainu she'adayin hakeli miktzat ...to shel oved kochavim, aval im chazar vekana chelek ha'oved kochavim, tzarich tevilah” (It implies that the utensil remains partly owned by a non-Jew, but if he later buys the non-Jew’s share, immersion is required).
I’m sorry; I was wrong. What he is saying is this: if a goy and a Jew buy it together, and then a year later the goy sells the Jew his share, you have to do tevilah. You owned half, and now you bought a new half, so now you have to do tevilah. That is also a chidush; it is a big chidush. The Shach is explaining this. The Shach was Rabbi Shabtai Kohen, one of the greatest. He died at 38 years old. The Levush also 38! What a rav. The Shach was a friend of the Taz, Turei Zahav. They had an argument, and they didn’t like each other in the end.
Why does someone sitting with a goy on one side and a Jew on the other need a partition between them, veyesh mechitzah beineihem, so that his food should not get mixed up, shelo yit'arev lo ha'ochel? Mah hahefdel bein ha'ochel lakli, what is the difference between the food and the utensil, when the Jew is now his partner, achshav hu shutaf ito, 50/50, kmo she'amarnu, as we said? metzi'ut sheyesh, a reality in which there is half, not whole. Chetzi tum'ah yesh poh, vechetzi kasher poh, there is half impurity here and half kosher here; bimetzi'ut shegam hayehudi ein bo tum'ah, in a reality where the Jew also has no impurity. Where is the impurity? Tum'ah, ki kulam tme'im ba'olam, impurity, because everyone is impure in the world.
“Ata shutaf, ata shutaf shel goy” (You are a partner, you are a partner of a non-Jew). “Ken,” yes. “Ve'anachnu yoshvim bashulchan le'echol” (And we are sitting at the table to eat). Mon'im mimecha she'ata chayav lasim mechitzah, mashehu, siman—they prevent you; you are required to put up a partition, something, a sign, shelo yit'arev ha'ochel shelcha im shelo—so that your food should not get mixed with his. We are afraid you might take food from his plate. If you are good friends with him, that is the concern; if you don’t know him and wouldn’t take food from his plate, you don’t need a partition. It is only a chashash, a concern, that you might take from there. It has nothing to do with shutafut, partnership. “Mah hakesher shutafut?” What does partnership have to do with it? “Hu amar shutafut.” He said partnership. How do you know it is half and half? Eich ata eich ata yode'a chetzi vachetzi, biglal shehu yehudi chetzi mutar lo vegoy gam mutar lo, az mutar lo (How do you know it is half and half? Because he is Jewish, half is permitted to him, and the non-Jew is also permitted, so it is permitted to him).
He owns a kosher restaurant, don't worry about that. “Az hem samim sham mashgi'ach.” Then they put a supervisor there. “Beseder, yesh mashgi'ach.” All right, there is a supervisor. Do you need to do tevilah or not? You are confusing tevilah and kashrut, kosher status. They are two different things. Tevilah is tevilah; no hag'alah, kashering by boiling. “Ken, aval tevilah hu tzarich la'asot.” Yes, but he has to do immersion. “Lo! Biglal shehagoy hu chetzi” (No! Because the non-Jew is half.) If you don’t own the whole thing, you don’t have to do it.
You have to be mechalek, make a distinction, very, very well, between tevilat kelim, zeh hag'alah, that is kashering by boiling, and hechsher kelim, making utensils kosher. They are two different things. Shebzeh yesh hag'alah—in this there is kashering by boiling. That has nothing to do with hag'alah. Which materials require immersion? Metal. We saw the Gemara, in the Mishkan (Tabernacle).
We studied Tevilat Kelim Bet. I think the halachah is that if you own the concept and are asking them, I need to check. I’m going to call the woman and ask how she did it. For example, the chachmei Yalkut Yosef, sages of Yalkut Yosef, say that most factories are in China, not Israel. They make kumkumim, kettles, in China, not Israel. They rely on the idea that you own the product, you own everything. It is like your factory, and you pay for labor. It is like kablanut, contract work. They don't own—They don't want to stay with that product. You are hiring a machine.
But what is the kablanut here? Someone else asks for that product. They do it for them, even using the same factory. If the machine is used for the other customer, then what? Even with the machine, the point is that they do everything the customer needs. If you give them a design, they use it for everybody. Even with the machine, you give employees to work on the machine, you give them bekablanut? No. That's different. If you own the factory, even if a goy works there, it is your factory. But if you hire a factory to do the job for you, are they your employees, so to speak, or do they own all of it? They own the premises and machinery. They won't do it unless you give them a deposit. You pre-buy the merchandise. For sure today, factories in China don't care about your design, your order. It's a different customer. They do the order for the customer, that's it. They put your label and they're going—But if the factory doesn’t have the Baccarat, they are not going to produce Baccarat. If it is patented, they cannot use it; they would be sued. They’re not allowed to, okay. They’re breaking the law, I don’t care what they’re doing. They break the law, they’re wrong.
A berachah acharonah, after-blessing: “Baruch atah Hashem Elokeinu melech ha'olam al ha'etz ve'al peri ha'etz ve'al tenuvat hasadeh ve'al eretz chemdah tovah urechavah...” (Blessed are You, Hashem our God, King of the universe, for the tree and the fruit of the tree, for the produce of the field, and for a desirable, good, and spacious land.) “Ki atah tov umetiv lakol” (for You are good and do good to all). “Baruch atah Hashem al ha'aretz ve'al peirot” (Blessed are You, Hashem, for the land and its fruits).
Is that because it’s from Israel? Kalkalatah? No, this is Ukrainian wheat. What do you think, they grow wheat in Israel? It is manufactured in Israel. Now we have to see whether that halachah depends on the manufacturer.